Slimebeast said:
Soundwave said:
Firstly, I do think people have to learn to live together. That is a liberal idea. Locking yourself in your country and saying 6/7 of the world's population has to live in poverty is morally reprehensible.
We have a responsibility to allow a reasonable flow of immigration. Beyond that, it's needed in the first place, the only reason America is able to lead is because they import half their PhDs from India and China, otherwise it's a pretty stupid country (of developed countries, America almost always puts up mediocre eductional rankings compared to other developed countries).
By and large MOST people are able to co-exist. Yes they are different, but even most Muslims in the West are not raving fanatics, they're just regular people. Have a conversation with one. They're not the boogeyman they're painted out to be.
Yes, there are always going to be issues, but before the West pats itself on the back too hard for "progressive" liberal ideals like gay rights and minority rights, 20-30 years ago many in the West felt the same as the average Muslim does today. Progress takes time, it isn't done overnight.
We cannot hide behind borders forever, the world is changed, we have access to technology and eductation and information and are tied together with a global system of capital no matter what. If this existed for humans 500 years ago, the way countries are made up would be vastly different.
And honestly I simply don't fear some kind of "Islamist" state in the West, no one (including most Muslims here) want to live like an 18th century goat herder.
Hyper-religiousism (if you want to call it that) will always fail in a modern society.
Yes sure for that particular religion perhaps more thoughtful integration policies are required, but thoughtful is the operative word there.
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This post is a huge insult to the Western man, and you conveniently ignored my post about concrete issues.
"We cannot hide behind borders forever" takes the price. When young whites/etnical kids in both the USA and Sweden respectably have become minorities beause of decades of immigration you have the nerve to accuse us of "locking ourself in" our country lol.
You claim we have a "responsibility" to allow a reasonable flow. Responsibility for what exactly? To help those who flee from war and persecution? To also let in all the poor?
The goal is to take in as many foreigners as possible because the truth is that the very purpose in itself is to humiliate the white man and make him a minority in his own home.
And how much is a "reasonable flow"? Apparently our current flow is not reasonable enough for you. The left will never be satisfied. Now we're at the point where's it's simply "We're already multicultural and it's too late to change that, just learn to deal with it lol"
That's a nasty and deliberate tactic they've used from the very beginning.
To call America stupid country is another insult and factually ridiculous.
You always say these bad things only about Western nations, never anything negative about foreigners. It stinks. It's with this type of lenient attitude we get these horrendous consequences where the authorities are lecturing to the crime-victim about the perpetrators trauma with racism and being vulnerable
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Well I'm sorry you think it's insulting. I will address your points none the less, lol.
1.) I'm saying the world is more global. Not because of a conspiracy, just common sense, we live in interconnected world due to monstrous advances in technology in the last 100 years or so, which have radically altered humanity forever. And there will be more changes in the nex 100 years which will change society as well. If we had that level of technology in the 16th/17th century, the world you live in today would also be radically different. Human migration patterns would be radically different. This is not really an opinion, just a point of fact. Yes things have been a certain way and groups of people were left alienated apart from each other for hundreds of years ... but people also used to shit in bushes and travel on horseback, etc. etc. etc. A seperated world isn't realistic anymore.
2.) America has always been a nation of immigrants large parts of it were carved out over Mexico and built on the backs of African slave labor. So an ethnically diverse population has always been instrinic to America. If you are speaking about Europe, 90% of Europe is still white European. Is it really that difficult to live next to 1 out of 10 people who have a skin shade darker than yours? If that's the case, then we are a pretty sad sack species to begin with. What are we going to do in 100-200 years? We are going to have to leave this rock sooner or later and it's going to have to be through cooperation.
3.) You claim we have a "responsibility" to allow a reasonable flow. Responsibility for what exactly? To help those who flee from war and persecution? To also let in all the poor? Responsibility to humanity I would say. If you are consuming 80% of the world's resources, telling 6/7 of the world to go munch on your breadcrumbs is not a humane way to run a civilized planet in which there is enough food to go around for example. I personally think it's sad that your world view is that helping people who just want a shot at a decent life means you are being "humilated". I am not saying unchecked immigration, but certainly I think the West has some onus to accept a fair share of people who want a better life because we live in a society of tremendous privelege and abundance. We throw away more food at a dinner table than a lot of families get to eat in 2-3 days in some parts of the world. Now yes, maybe we do need to instigate strong integration mechanisms, on that I would agree if someone raised that point.
I would say the point the Left misses out on is they underestimate how large of a transition going from another country to the West can be, there needs to be mechanisms in place to ease into that.
4.) To call America stupid country is another insult and factually ridiculous.
Is it really? Consider also the massive resources the US has at that, there is no excuse for test scores so far below so many other developed nations.
Here's another one, 64% of Americans can't even name the three branches of their own government:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/09/18/only-36-percent-of-americans-can-name-the-three-branches-of-government/
The main reason America still drives a lot of technical innovation in the world is because they allow in *a lot* of highly skilled PhDs, doctors, tech workers, etc. from China/India/etc. That is basically what drives Silicon Valley.
5.) I will say the current trend of radical Islamic extremism is a negative, but many immigrants are not Muslim, and even many of the Muslims are not extremists. There needs to be distinctions made. And what happens when/if "radical Islam" is defeated? Then what will the excuse be? Because I think the right loves radical Islam, they needed something like that so badly, if you removed that from the debate, it's really not much of a debate.