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Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris explains why Trump is a dangerous candidate.

 

This video is both a little long, and a little old, but it does a great job of explaining what makes Donald Drumpf such a different beast to others that have run for President before. It also goes a long way to quash the idea that Clinton and Drumpf are equally bad.

It's way too long for me to put the whole transcript here, but I did want to write out the part where he talks about the ethical issues surrounding Drumpfs proposal to deport illegal immigrants.

The whole deportation topic starts at 21:22 

"The vast majority of these people are simply doing jobs that most Americans don't want to do. So now look around you, look at the nanny's and housekeepers you meet in the world. If you have young kids you might meet a lot of these people. Now imagine all of them who are undocumented rounded up and deported, inevitably at gunpoint. Because if you did most of these people don't want to go as most of them won't. You're talking about the threat of deadly force knocking on the door, that's what these operations would look like. We're talking about the people that bus tables at your favorite restaraunt, the guys you see working at a carwash, people who pick fruit. People by the millions who do productive work that Americans simply by and large do not want to do, and many of these people have kids who are American citizens.

So now we're talking about breaking up families. What does that look like? What does it look like to send the mother of a four year old American citizen back to Mexico? How many tens of thousands of people would fall into that precise situation under this policy and how many hundreds of thousands of stormtroopers would be required to enact it? We're talking about a terrifying authoritarian intrusion into our lives to bring this off. For the point of what? to get rid of rapists? No, to get rid of nannies."



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I truly wish, with the bottom of my heart that conservative side would stop focusing on the social aspects of the government and focus on the economic aspects, and how to better rebuild/manage. This goes for every country.



 

Normchacho said:

 

This video is both a little long, and a little old, but it does a great job of explaining what makes Donald Drumpf such a different beast to others that have run for President before. It also goes a long way to quash the idea that Clinton and Drumpf are equally bad.

It's way too long for me to put the whole transcript here, but I did want to write out the part where he talks about the ethical issues surrounding Drumpfs proposal to deport illegal immigrants.

The whole deportation topic starts at 21:22 

"The vast majority of these people are simply doing jobs that most Americans don't want to do. So now look around you, look at the nanny's and housekeepers you meet in the world. If you have young kids you might meet a lot of these people. Now imagine all of them who are undocumented rounded up and deported, inevitably at gunpoint. Because if you did most of these people don't want to go as most of them won't. You're talking about the threat of deadly force knocking on the door, that's what these operations would look like. We're talking about the people that bus tables at your favorite restaraunt, the guys you see working at a carwash, people who pick fruit. People by the millions who do productive work that Americans simply by and large do not want to do, and many of these people have kids who are American citizens.

So now we're talking about breaking up families. What does that look like? What does it look like to send the mother of a four year old American citizen back to Mexico? How many tens of thousands of people would fall into that precise situation under this policy and how many hundreds of thousands of stormtroopers would be required to enact it? We're talking about a terrifying authoritarian intrusion into our lives to bring this off. For the point of what? to get rid of rapists? No, to get rid of nannies."

This argument irritates me more than anything. Yes, most Americans don't want to do that job at those wages. 

You are allowing business to get away with not hiring or paying regular wages to Americans and instead exploit these people. It's fucking slave labor and to allow them to stay here under such horrible living conditions.

Who's going to do the job if their gone is everyone's concern, yet no one cares about how most of them live now.   Why is it when this argument is made it's always who's going to pick the fruit, clean your toilets, etc... I'm sure this was the same argument slave owners made as justification to keep their slaves. People just want to keep their slaves, but now just want to act like they care about them. 

Also the rounding up of illegals at gunpoint already happened in the 90's It was done by Hillary's husband Bill with the little Cuban boy Elian. Did this jackhole already forget that?



Does it really need explaining at this point? Whomever haven't realized this at this point will never be convinced, regardless of how articulate and valid the arguments are.



plip.plop said:
Normchacho said:

 

"The vast majority of these people are simply doing jobs that most Americans don't want to do. So now look around you, look at the nanny's and housekeepers you meet in the world. If you have young kids you might meet a lot of these people. Now imagine all of them who are undocumented rounded up and deported, inevitably at gunpoint. Because if you did most of these people don't want to go as most of them won't. You're talking about the threat of deadly force knocking on the door, that's what these operations would look like. We're talking about the people that bus tables at your favorite restaraunt, the guys you see working at a carwash, people who pick fruit. People by the millions who do productive work that Americans simply by and large do not want to do, and many of these people have kids who are American citizens.

So now we're talking about breaking up families. What does that look like? What does it look like to send the mother of a four year old American citizen back to Mexico? How many tens of thousands of people would fall into that precise situation under this policy and how many hundreds of thousands of stormtroopers would be required to enact it? We're talking about a terrifying authoritarian intrusion into our lives to bring this off. For the point of what? to get rid of rapists? No, to get rid of nannies."

This argument irritates me more than anything. Yes, most Americans don't want to do that job at those wages. 

You are allowing business to get away with not hiring or paying regular wages to Americans and instead exploit these people. It's fucking slave labor and to allow them to stay here under such horrible living conditions.

Who's going to do the job if their gone is everyone's concern, yet no one cares about how most of them live now.   Why is it when this argument is made it's always who's going to pick the fruit, clean your toilets, etc... I'm sure this was the same argument slave owners made as justification to keep their slaves. People just want to keep their slaves, but now just want to act like they care about them. 

Also the rounding up of illegals at gunpoint already happened in the 90's It was done by Hillary's husband Bill with the little Cuban boy Elian. Did this jackhole already forget that?

You're missing the point. He isn't saying "who's going to pick our fruit and clean the toilets?" He's saying "Why do we need to deport these people and pull apart their families if they're just picking fruit and cleaning toilets?"

In fact, most people who are against deporting them believe that there should be a path for legal residency for the people who are here which would mean the could fall under the sale labor laws as everybody else.

Elian Gonzalez was returned to Cuba at his fathers request. What are you talking about?



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There is a path to residency it's called file an application and get in line.

We have Americans that are homeless and hungry, we should be taking care of them first.

I'm guessing by my response I sound like some redneck racist that drives a Camaro and sports a mullet.

Just to put that image aside. I'm Mexican and Korean. When you have friends that work border patrol, and live close to all this you see things differently. News only reports the points that want you to see.



plip.plop said:

There is a path to residency it's called file an application and get in line.

We have Americans that are homeless and hungry, we should be taking care of them first.

I'm guessing by my response I sound like some redneck racist that drives a Camaro and sports a mullet.

Just to put that image aside. I'm Mexican and Korean. When you have friends that work border patrol, and live close to all this you see things differently. News only reports the points that want you to see.

That's entirely missing the point he was making.  

Let's suppose for a moment that I completely agree with you on this.  How does Trump's plan help solve any of these problems?  Trying to deport 11 million people (that was his position at the time, but it changes on a regular basis so who the hell knows what he's suggesting now) is going to simply waste money that could be better used elsewhere, such as on those homeless and hungry people.



The thing is that I agree with most of Sam Harris arguments in principle, Trump is a rude, anti-intellectual moron, I just put different weight on the gravity of those issues and therefore arrive at a different conclusion. The good offsets the bad, which is essentially that Trump canalizes so much of sane ideas that are urgently needed as a counter-weight in an increasingly cultural marxist Western world. And I believe that in office as the President of USA, the big system around him would restrict Trump from doing much of the radical unrealistic stuff, and while in power he would take on a much more mature, pragmatic and responsible role.

But on the other hand Trump's crazy personality could very well be detrimental to the whole conservative movement though, which is why I'm not entirely sure if it's best that he actually gets into office. Perhaps a successful campaign to raise these questions up on the agenda in the public discussion, him losing the election and then a more articulate intellectual taking over the mission for the future would be a much better option.



plip.plop said:

There is a path to residency it's called file an application and get in line.

We have Americans that are homeless and hungry, we should be taking care of them first.

I'm guessing by my response I sound like some redneck racist that drives a Camaro and sports a mullet.

Just to put that image aside. I'm Mexican and Korean. When you have friends that work border patrol, and live close to all this you see things differently. News only reports the points that want you to see.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make? Do you agree or disagree with the idea that it is unethical to deport the 11-12 million illegal immigrants that live in the U.S.?



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I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Not even gonna bother if he tries to make the point that one is worse than the other because I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils. Gary Johnson has my vote.



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