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I don't care about your fanmade games being taken down.

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I don't care about your fanmade games being taken down.

vivster said:
Yes, we know that Nintendo is not one of the cool companies that's not threatening its fans. You really don'the have to remind us.

Also is this a parody thread? That last paragraph sounds like it.

Let me ask you a question. If someone is knowingly ripping off a company by copying their IP, posting it online when they know said company doesn't want them to and will threaten to sue them... how much of a fan can that person be?

In my opinion? That's not a fan. I am a huge fan of Nintendo and that's why I'd never attempt to rip off their IP to get attention. If I were to create a game, it would be totally original. If I wanted to pay homage to Nintendo, I'd make a game which was influenced BY one of their games. I certainly wouldn't use one of their characters or games without permission.



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Nintendo should not be praised for subdoing creativity. It's petty for a giant company to take down FREE passion products made to please the community. Project m is a big example that comes to mind. People love super smash bros melee but there's no doubt that melee loses its lust as time goes on (due to graphics, new characters, new stages, new innovations, etc.). So how does Nintendo repay its devoted fans that want to keep the legacy of melee going? They shut them down. It simply baffles my mind that Nintendo would want to kill off passion products like those. Their actions are legal, but that doesn't mean they aren't being disrespectful and idiotic in the process.

Compare their actions to a company like valve, where passion products like Warcraft mods are transformed into big hits like DOTA 2 and you see that Nintendo is just throwing away potential



SpokenTruth said:
Zkuq said:
The problem is that Nintendo is taking down fan-made games that would, if anything, benefit them. Instead, they opt to take the role of a bully. They have the right to that, but they also have to face the backslash because people have the right to get angry about Nintendo's actions. All in all, Nintendo is not a modern company, and this is just another sign of it.

Most of us misunderstand teh reason for take down notices.  There are 3 main reasons.

1. Brand protection.  You can't guarantee the quality of a fan game.  Poor games can reflect badly upon Nintendo itself as many players may not be aware that Nintendo didn't develop it (see Pokemon Go to understand players being unaware of Nintendo's involvement in a game).


2. Time and money.  Any time and money spent on fan games is time and money not spent on official products.


3. Competition for currently marketed products.  You don't want to spent millions pushing a game only to have fan made games pulling players away.



To consider the opposite, how well is Sega doing by allowing fans to make Sega based games?  Any tangible benefit at all?  Do you really think Sega would be OK with a fan based Total War, Yakuza or Phantasy Star game?

I don't think any of these is a real problem.

1. Poor products won't get attention for long, and Nintendo could always just target the poor products instead of every single one. Fan-made products are sort of a niche thing anyway, and I bet that most people familiar with them know they're unofficial anyway. I can see some potential issues with trademarks, but I haven't really heard about that side of the argument much. I'm guessing it's not a huge problem when no one's profiting from the products.

2. Fan-made products are mainly targeted at fans anyway, and fans are probably going to prioritize official products.

3. I don't really see how this is different from #2, so nothing to add here. See my answer to #2.

I think the threats you mentioned are somewhat real, but I don't think any of them is a problem due to the benefits of fan-made products. You get bigger brand recognition for free, might attract new fans, and you end up looking cool when you have a relaxed relationship with fan-made products. On the other hand, it's not good publicity to ban these things, it can make you look anything from bad to evil.

As far as I know, Sega isn't doing too badly. Can't say whether there's any measurable benefit to allowing fan-made products because anyone's even tried to measure it, and it's probably very difficult anyway, but at the very least you gain some good publicity from it. I don't really see how this has harmed Sega. And I suppose bigger products like Total War or Yakuza could be different, but that's mainly because they're pretty huge titles and guaranteed to attract more attention. There, the drawbacks you mentioned could well be significant, but I don't see much point in discussing them because no one's ever going to create anything like that for free (and even if someone does, it's almost guaranteed to be of much lower quality).



midrange said:
Nintendo should not be praised for subdoing creativity. It's petty for a giant company to take down FREE passion products made to please the community. Project m is a big example that comes to mind. People love super smash bros melee but there's no doubt that melee loses its lust as time goes on (due to graphics, new characters, new stages, new innovations, etc.). So how does Nintendo repay its devoted fans that want to keep the legacy of melee going? They shut them down. It simply baffles my mind that Nintendo would want to kill off passion products like those. Their actions are legal, but that doesn't mean they aren't being disrespectful and idiotic in the process.

Compare their actions to a company like valve, where passion products like Warcraft mods are transformed into big hits like DOTA 2 and you see that Nintendo is just throwing away potential

The problem with Project M is that they basically used Brawl and modded assets including possibly hidden assets that hinted cuts and such (Mewtwo and Roy). The reason they didn't shut them down personally was probably due to the game keeping the third party characters in which that can be stingy. The dev team was pretty much shut down due to fear. You can talk about reading between the lines and such but that's what I read and we can't really say much unless the dev team say anything else otherwise since they confirmed Nintendo didn't approach them to shut down the project. 

It also didn't help that Smash 4 was looming and then later being included in tournaments. Now that Smash 4 is developing a growing scene with one of, if not the, greatest crossover rosters of all time, new players and Brawl veterans are shifting focus on Smash 4. Project M is still around and can still be downloaded through other means, it just can't be mentioned on Miiverse, live at tournament streams, or be on Twitch. Again, this is all gray line to me and you can't just simply say Nintendo hates its fans and all that stuff that goes with it. Not everyone is bothered by it nor affected by it. Maybe Nintendo, HAL, etc. will release Melee HD or something someday. For now, Smash 4 and Melee (with some 64) are the big focus in tournaments currently.



Lol, Nintendo deleted a game that had 10+ Years of development, should they be praised by that ?

They should hire those people and try to sell the game that they made.



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torok said:
 I always remember of GTA San Andreas and the Hot Coffee mod. It wasn't made by Rockstar, but if you look at older news, a lot of sites reported things like "GTA has explicit sex". Parents don't know what a mod is, they just will think that the game has it and won't buy it

Sorry, but this argument already fails, if parents are buying a M rated game, to kids. And it techncally was. The mod was using abandon code that was made for the game, in the first place.  



Zkuq said:
SpokenTruth said:

Most of us misunderstand teh reason for take down notices.  There are 3 main reasons.

1. Brand protection.  You can't guarantee the quality of a fan game.  Poor games can reflect badly upon Nintendo itself as many players may not be aware that Nintendo didn't develop it (see Pokemon Go to understand players being unaware of Nintendo's involvement in a game).


2. Time and money.  Any time and money spent on fan games is time and money not spent on official products.


3. Competition for currently marketed products.  You don't want to spent millions pushing a game only to have fan made games pulling players away.



To consider the opposite, how well is Sega doing by allowing fans to make Sega based games?  Any tangible benefit at all?  Do you really think Sega would be OK with a fan based Total War, Yakuza or Phantasy Star game?

I don't think any of these is a real problem.

1. Poor products won't get attention for long, and Nintendo could always just target the poor products instead of every single one. Fan-made products are sort of a niche thing anyway, and I bet that most people familiar with them know they're unofficial anyway. I can see some potential issues with trademarks, but I haven't really heard about that side of the argument much. I'm guessing it's not a huge problem when no one's profiting from the products.

2. Fan-made products are mainly targeted at fans anyway, and fans are probably going to prioritize official products.

3. I don't really see how this is different from #2, so nothing to add here. See my answer to #2.

I think the threats you mentioned are somewhat real, but I don't think any of them is a problem due to the benefits of fan-made products. You get bigger brand recognition for free, might attract new fans, and you end up looking cool when you have a relaxed relationship with fan-made products. On the other hand, it's not good publicity to ban these things, it can make you look anything from bad to evil.

As far as I know, Sega isn't doing too badly. Can't say whether there's any measurable benefit to allowing fan-made products because anyone's even tried to measure it, and it's probably very difficult anyway, but at the very least you gain some good publicity from it. I don't really see how this has harmed Sega. And I suppose bigger products like Total War or Yakuza could be different, but that's mainly because they're pretty huge titles and guaranteed to attract more attention. There, the drawbacks you mentioned could well be significant, but I don't see much point in discussing them because no one's ever going to create anything like that for free (and even if someone does, it's almost guaranteed to be of much lower quality).

The last time i Saw, Sega had 350+ Millions of profit; the same for Nintendo.

 

I don't know why those people thing this way. Will EA or Activision hire developers to make "fan-made" games of Sega or Nintendo's franchises ?

A  actual game take years and years to release, that with a very large development team.  But they expect that a bunch of random people, without any $ invested, will be able to develop a game. The people from Dragon Ball Online are  taking 3-4 years only to translate the game and take the servers back, not creating anything.

If a Fan-made game is more popular or has a higher quality than a official game, there is a problem. You can notice that a game is fan-made in the first 2 seconds of gameplay. Only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of that games have a quality in the level of an official one.



archer9234 said:
torok said:
 I always remember of GTA San Andreas and the Hot Coffee mod. It wasn't made by Rockstar, but if you look at older news, a lot of sites reported things like "GTA has explicit sex". Parents don't know what a mod is, they just will think that the game has it and won't buy it

Sorry, but this argument already fails, if parents are buying a M rated game, to kids. And it techncally was. The mod was using abandon code that was made for the game, in the first place.  

But GTA San Andreas had explicit sex. It was possible to make sex with Carl's Girl Friend.



mountaindewslave said:

I love Nintendo but I do have issues with the company at times. However them taking down fanmade games is the least of their problems.

Its just purely logical, if they let people freely adjust their old games then what sort of precedent does that set? not to mention Nintendo still sells their old games on the E-Shop. Since they don't put their games on any platform except their own, they certainly aren't going to be okay with somebody giving out a free version of Metroid II online that has 1 million downloads and will make it unnecessary for loads of people to buy the title on the Eshop.

 

There are bigger issues with Nintendo at present in terms of how they operate and work with fans. I would say the biggest is their attitude towards social media and Youtube, the concept that no one can post content that includes footage from their newer games unless they opt into the Nintendo revenue sharing plan. In the big scheme of things that sort of thing just absolutely damages Nintendo's IPs being spread further in social media.

I mean obviously most people are aware of Mario and Zelda and Pokemon but it doesn't do them in any favors when they bizarrely limit when Nintendo game footage (at least stuff from current gens) can be posted online

My thoughts on the matter was that if Nintendo wanted a revenue share they should have got it from Youtube , not from the channels,after all it's Youtube payments that gives them revenue,they could have come up with a frame work where the producers kept their rates of payment per view or what ever the payment regime is and Nintendo had a seperate deal ,maybe cash or a certain percent of Nintendo ads put on these channels for free after all the audience is Nintendo based.



Nintendo taking down those fan games is serving their interest, not the gamers interest.

I understand that it's their right to"protect" their IPs. But them "protecting" their IPs does jack for me. So why should I praise them for taking down these fan games?




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