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Forums - Politics Discussion - Face it. It is over. Trump won.

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Trump or Hillary?

Trump FTW! 305 51.69%
 
Hillary all the way! 285 48.31%
 
Total:590
LadyJasmine said:
Ljink96 said:

This is exactly why he can't win. Nobody wants a president who only appeals to one demographic. You're running an entire country, the US isn't a niche market company who only can relate to one group of consumers. Polls literally mean nothing. They never have. Polls had al gore ahead of bush several times but in the end well, you should know what happened. The whole system is rigged either way. I don't necessarily like Hillary either. She's not really likeable as a person, AND NEITHER IS TRUMP, but she will most likely get something done.

I'd rather have a non-likeable president than a complete idiot who promotes racism and bigotry.

 

 

So your saying if Polls showed Hillary winning they are wrong too? 

I dont understand your narative.

After Brexit I think its wise to never underestimate what voters will do when they are angry. 

Yes, I'm saying polls mean nothing even if hillary is in the lead. That's my narritive. What's not to understand. I'm not a biased person who is a sheep with their party. I can admit when something is wrong on my side of the party. Trump supporters, if hillary eats pepperoni pizza, they cry "loser", if trump eats the exact same pizza, he's an instant god. I can admit that Hillary has had her questionable actions and so has trump. I'm really for neither because I can see both of their faults, even though I'm democrat. But dear Jesus, even I know Trump is a deathwish.



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However if a person says Trump can win does not mean they support Trump.

They are not having their head in the sand and relying on 'the better angels of nature' for victory lol



Ljink96 said:

Yes, I'm saying polls mean nothing even if hillary is in the lead. That's my narritive. What's not to understand. I'm not a biased person who is a sheep with their party. I can admit when something is wrong on my side of the party. Trump supporters, if hillary eats pepperoni pizza, they cry "loser", if trump eats the exact same pizza, he's an instant god. I can admit that Hillary has had her questionable actions and so has trump. I'm really for neither because I can see both of their faults, even though I'm democrat. But dear Jesus, even I know Trump is a deathwish.

Deathwish how exactly ?



Trump does well because of the issues really.

The narrative of negativity over illegal immigration, terrorism, free trade and political correctness are rather powerful across much of the western world these days.



fatslob-:O said:
Ljink96 said:

Yes, I'm saying polls mean nothing even if hillary is in the lead. That's my narritive. What's not to understand. I'm not a biased person who is a sheep with their party. I can admit when something is wrong on my side of the party. Trump supporters, if hillary eats pepperoni pizza, they cry "loser", if trump eats the exact same pizza, he's an instant god. I can admit that Hillary has had her questionable actions and so has trump. I'm really for neither because I can see both of their faults, even though I'm democrat. But dear Jesus, even I know Trump is a deathwish.

Deathwish how exactly ?

Sheesh, it's just a figure of speech. I didn't know psycologists would be on the thread so I'll say what I mean. A man who can't bridle his tounge, flip flops more than flap jacks, cannot be trusted in a country that's already just starting to recover. His ideas...they sound like so much BS it isn't even funny. Building a wall and making Mexio pay for it? Like, where do you even come up with something that ridiculous? Mexicans are rapists? He "knows more about ISIS than the generals do"? Even though he got drafted out of nam?

He "LOVES WAR", even though again, he got drafted out of nam several times... We can't trust somebody so ignorant and childish to run our country. He acts as if he doesn't know decent protocol for a human being running for president, he barely keeps up with the news, he thinks Putin didn't invade Ukraine, he thinks building a 2,000  mile wall will cost 4 billion dollars to make pffftttttt, . What I'm getting at is this guy is uninformed and he speaks before he thinks. This guy can get other countries in a wad really quick, and once they're disgusted by something he says or says he's going to do, i.e. "Blow Isis off the map", America won't be safe. Hell, we're already under attack. But Trump loves nuclear war, again though he's never been in one, but he loves it,  so if he intends to blow people off maps and God knows what else, Isis is going to get a hold of weapons of "mass destruction" and get back at us. Nuclear weapons aren't hard to get a hold of anymore.

We need somebody who is level headed, has served our country for most of their life, and somebody who knows the ins and outs of foreign policy and can be approachable and likeable to many other nations besides just Russia which Putin (seen as our enemy), praises donald trump. This is why Trump is being compared to hitler. Not because he's going to kill innocent people, well I hope not, but it's because the people are so desperate that they don't even know what or who they're voting for, they just want a change. And yes, Trump is different and that's the best I can give him. Well actually, I do agree that hispanics should be required to enter the US legally and not illegally because they aren't paying taxes, they're getting SS checks, and they're taking US jobs. That's screwing with our economy. 11 million of them are undocumented and not required to pay taxes of course we're hemmoraging money. So I do agree with Trump on that.

The bottom line for me is, I do agree with trump on a couple of things and I mean a couple, but the ways that he proposes aren't going to work and will blow up in his face. Still, even if he does win he'll be a puppet of congress just like any other president. Unless he starts doing executive orders and effectively become a dictator. Like I said, Hillary wouldn't be my first choice but she's way better than Trump.



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sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I hear ya, but that's not nearly as bad as Hilary's lies. Anywho, she supported it.

Basically, if you're a Hilary supporter the last thing you should do is call Trump out on lying.

Fair. They are both liars, but trying to downplay someone's lies on either side is just silly and pulling out the measuring stick and trying to act like one guy's lies are better than someone else's is also fairly ridiculous.

I disagree. Trump's lies have more to do with hyperbole and flip flopping on positions. Perhaps that doesn't bother me as much as it should.

The things Hilary is lying about and has been caught lying about, well that concerns me more.



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Is Trump against gays OP?



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ps3-sales! said:
Is Trump against gays OP?

Not at all. And I am not against homosexuals either. I am against the persecution of christians and the destruction of the infancy, just that.

Gays can marry, be happy, of course. But we do not need to expose our kids to sex at tender ages and neither multilate them before they are old enough to decide what they really want. 

We also do not need to arrest christians because they believe in the Holy Bible.

Aside that, sure, gays can marry and be happy.



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CosmicSex said:
tokilamockingbrd said:

well, I already put more perspective in that comment when I responded to someone else. 

But yes, most white people don't believe that racism is not as bad as it is cracked out to because they do not see it. I for one have not witnessed someone being racist in a long long long time. However I am in the Army (as an officer) and I might not hear what some 18 year old from Texas may be saying out of sight from officers. If someone comes forward says they have faced racial discrimination we have strict procecures to follow, I have not had this happen in 7 years. 

I have had an instance where a few black females were trying to claim institutional racism. 2 black females approached me and my platoon Seargent about 6 years ago (when I was still a butter bar) and asked why none of the black females E5s were getting promoted (which was just the 2 of them). My platoon Sergeant pulled their files showed them why... one had been pregnant for almost 5 years straight (this was back when units were constantly rotating to war) and had not taken a PT test, gone to the range, and had not met a few other specific requirements for promotion, and the other was recently promoted to E5 and was not even eligible yet. In their minds this was all about racism. In fact it was not, in the one case she had made decisions that put her a position where she had not met the requirements to be promoted and the other was not even eligible. 

If you have not experienced it then that is good enough.  And if you encountered people who thought they were being treated unfairly, you were able to show them why they had mistaken.  It is good to know that racism is punished in the armed services.  However in the real world, when you encounter it, its not like that at all. (I had made a laundry list of all the things that I expereinced but relized it was overly dramatic and no one cares anyway.) Just know that racism is real, it hurts and it gets to the point where you forgive yourself for ever allowing yourself to think you deserved it for one minute.  Then you get mad, you want changes and then they tell you nothing is wrong. It can make you feel like an immigrant in your own country... and in the end, you stop caring because you start to feel sorry for folks who are so screwed up that they can't even see other suffering.  You forgive them because you know that you are them, with just a different expereince and perspective. But you stand up for yourself and you call it when you see it.  Institutional racism would be like the study that showed how on average a black person has to be about 8x more qualified than their white counterpart applying for the same position.  Then Trump talks about unemplyment in the black community but never offers answers.  He only blames an idea, called Obama and Hillary.  He never identifies core issues.  Reallty no one does because everyone want to act like racism and generational poverty doesn't exist or aren't related.   Boring.

it goes beyond racism. there is a lot of self inflected wounds. People talk of white priveledge. My dad was a pastor, I have 5 brothers and sisters and he made maybe 40k a year gross. We never had extra money, we had just enough to have a house and food and cheap off brand clothes. The only priveldge I had was I had a mother and a father fully invested in my development. Maybe wealthy people can get by not having a good family because they can afford to send their kids to the best schools and such, but until some of these core issues are addressed things are not going to get better.  I know quite a few very successful black people, and common theme is they came from good families, not all, but a clear majority at least. 

good families can produce bad apples, but maintaining the structure of the family greatly increases the odds of a person no turning out bad. 



psn- tokila

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SpokenTruth said:
Mnementh said:

Well, if you would read what I wrote, than Nate Silver and Jody Avirgan are writing that a) it is pretty unclear if 50% of Trumps voters (as suspected by Clinton) are racists, as the notion as racists is strongly depending on definition. As the answers to different questions differ it seems everyone has a bit racist in themself and how much differs from person to person. Secondly they point out that also Clintons voters contains a set of racists, but probably less than Trumps.

Single data points like David Duke are irrelevant to such statistical data. We talk about millions of people. If you let your decision be guided by David Duke though (if you make always the oppposite of him) you give him a lot of power over you, so if he would support Clinton, you would instantly drop her?

So you're whole posit is that she said "half" and rather than consider hyperbole, you take it as she's explicitly claiming half.  Do you hold Trump to the same explicit standards?

What do you want from me? You pointed to KKK, David Duke and so forth. As if a candidate is defined by some fringe groups that support him. Do I say Trump is a great candidate? I'm far from it.

I don't say the 50% is hyperbole, it is correct, if you take a specific question as measurement. If you would have read the links, people answer differently depending on which question you ask. The question that classified 50% of Trump supporters as racists also classify 25% of Clinton supporters as racist. this is what I'm pointing out. Racists is not a clearly defined thing.

So, to conclude the discussion I adopt your style: Hillary Clinton is supported by racists, so she must be an evil biatch.

 

 

Either way, the US is a tumbling imperium. It will be in 50 years in the position russia has now. America will not be great again, it will go down, that much is for sure. The big question for me as european is: will the US start world war III in the process of going down or not? Both - Hillary and Donald - are good candidates for making war. As sure as hell Hillary wins, she will go down in history as starter of WWIII. But maybe miracles do happen, and you Americans elect Jill Stein.



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