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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 Pro’s inability to play 4K UHD discs is, no doubt, short-lived

Landguy on 12 September 2016

Simply put, for anyone to say they wanted to buy a PS4pro but are not going to because it doesn't play UHD movie "discs"? well.... let's just say that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard of late. Because it's not like it wont play UHD movies. Just not the disc.... Hell, you can even download UHD movies if you simply don't want to stream. There are options. 

Say hello to someone who lives with a budget of sorts.  I recently bought a new 70inch Samsung tv with HDR, I spent up a bit to get HDR.  I had been waiting for the Neo to buy a PS4 this fall.  But, my launch XB1 doesn't have 4k bluray playback either.  So, when the XB1s  had the capability, I thought for sure that the PS4pro would too.  I thought I would simply use the PS4Pro to be the 4k player and resolve the problem.  Alas, that is not the case.  Now, I have a decison to make.  So, I am trading my launch XB1 for an XB1s(it will still cost me $200).  But, there goes the PS4 budget...

 I didn't trade gaming for the movie player.

As far as your theory of it being the same to just buy digital and download it?  Look up the cost of the bluray 4k movie.  I comes with the 4k bluray, digital copy and a standard bluray or dvd.  So, i get all the formats for about the same price.  Downloading a 4k movie everytime I want to watch it would require some planning...



It is near the end of the end....

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Intrinsic on 12 September 2016
Landguy said:

Simply put, for anyone to say they wanted to buy a PS4pro but are not going to because it doesn't play UHD movie "discs"? well.... let's just say that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard of late. Because it's not like it wont play UHD movies. Just not the disc.... Hell, you can even download UHD movies if you simply don't want to stream. There are options. 

Say hello to someone who lives with a budget of sorts.  I recently bought a new 70inch Samsung tv with HDR, I spent up a bit to get HDR.  I had been waiting for the Neo to buy a PS4 this fall.  But, my launch XB1 doesn't have 4k bluray playback either.  So, when the XB1s  had the capability, I thought for sure that the PS4pro would too.  I thought I would simply use the PS4Pro to be the 4k player and resolve the problem.  Alas, that is not the case.  Now, I have a decison to make.  So, I am trading my launch XB1 for an XB1s(it will still cost me $200).  But, there goes the PS4 budget...

 I didn't trade gaming for the movie player.

As far as your theory of it being the same to just buy digital and download it?  Look up the cost of the bluray 4k movie.  I comes with the 4k bluray, digital copy and a standard bluray or dvd.  So, i get all the formats for about the same price.  Downloading a 4k movie everytime I want to watch it would require some planning...

But its still an option. My point is that all of a sudden poeple are talking like this UHD movie thing was what they hsve all been waiting for. Meanwhile there are tons of ways to work around it. 

Anyways, let's just leave it alone. 



Xxain on 13 September 2016
KLXVER said:
Xxain said:

No. That is not what you said. There should be no reason why anybody should feel forced into a PS4 and a 4K player. Personal problem.

Would it be great for PS4 to have both? I guess... but lets get real, this is about the competition having something your choice doesnt have. If XBOX didnt have 4K player  no one would care.

That is what I said. People who want a PS4Pro and a 4k BR player have to buy both. Thats railroading people into buying both.

That is not SONY's problem. They are not obligated to include a 4K player,and by not having the feature its not their fault you gotta buy a product unrelated to PS line. They're not railroaing you into anything. Thats like walking into McDonald's and asking for a chicken big mac, something theve never advertised as a thing, then blaming them because you got buy a big mac and a chicken sandwich now. That is just stupid. 



thismeintiel on 13 September 2016
binary solo said:
thismeintiel said:

Not that I actually believe the article, but how large is that group?  MAYBE 1% of those who want to buy the PS4 Pro?  The VAST majority are going to buy this for games.

It's a point of difference in OneS's favour and if you are relatively neutral on the exclusive games then UHD playback could be enough to tip the scales and get you to buy a OneS. It's kinda silly to say people are buying for the games, when we are talkiing about 2 gaming consoles going head to head. Of course people are buying one or other console primarily for the games, and Xb oneS delivers that with a largely equivalent library of games. So people do get sold on other features additional to the gaming aspect. Lots of people bought PS3's last gen becuase it played Blu-ray movies. Sony always promoted playstation as having wider entertainment functionality, PS1 CD music playback, PS2 DVD movie playback. But now all of a sudden movie play back is no longer a relevant conversation in console buying decisions. 

Except Pro and Slim play the most popular (by far) physical formats, DVD and Bluray. A UHD player is going to factor very little in someone's decision to buy one over the other. Look at GameStop and Amazon right now.

On Amazon, the PS4 Pro has been in the Top 5 for 5 days now and it'll probably remain in the Top 10 for a week or more. And for current SKUs, there's two above the first XBO SKU.

On GameSpot, the Pro has been the #1 console for several days now, with the Slim moving up to #2. And that's with GameSpot trying to clear out a bunch of OG XBO's at $249, which are the bestselling XBO SKUs right now, and those don't even support 4K in any form.

As hard as people are trying to make this a big deal, the vast majority of people obviously just don't give a shit.



 

SvennoJ on 13 September 2016

The drive in the ps4p is still rated as 6x CAV or max 216 mbps for 25GB layers. However since it's CAV that speed drops to 90 mbps for the inner layer. 4K UHD discs have a higher density, 33GB layers. Taking the extra density into account, max read speed on the inner circle could be 118 mbps. 4K UHD specfies a read speed of 128 mbps, that's mighty close, unlike blu-ray that specifies a 72 mbps max transfer to read 54 mbps discs.
I think the drive is simply too slow to read (all) 4K UHD discs even if it can see 3 higher density layers.

The only drive I can find that currently is able to recognize 4K UHD discs (browse the file structure) is the LG WH16NS40, a 16x BDXL drive. (It still can't play the movie)
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2999470/blu-ray-disc-playing.html

I can't find any info on the drive inside the XBox One S, just that it's $15.50 more to produce than the old one.



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KLXVER on 13 September 2016
Xxain said:
KLXVER said:

That is what I said. People who want a PS4Pro and a 4k BR player have to buy both. Thats railroading people into buying both.

That is not SONY's problem. They are not obligated to include a 4K player,and by not having the feature its not their fault you gotta buy a product unrelated to PS line. They're not railroaing you into anything. Thats like walking into McDonald's and asking for a chicken big mac, something theve never advertised as a thing, then blaming them because you got buy a big mac and a chicken sandwich now. That is just stupid. 

Not if the PS4Pro can play 4K movies with just an update and Sony is hiding that fact in order for people to buy their BR players separately.



GameAnalyser on 13 September 2016
binary solo said:
GameAnalyser said:

I think a separate box player is indeed a fair justice to consumers who are more of a video elitists. Sony can market these separate players for them rather than via a dominant brand which could hurt those sales.

You mean a separate box player like Xb oneS? That's the problem here for Sony, they have competing interests. On the one hand they want to launch their stand alone players and give them room to establish, on the other hand they have a direct competitor in consoles that has a point of difference in its favour, which has up until now always either been a point of differnce in Sony's favour, or been equal between competitors. This is the first time Sony has been at a disadvantage on this particular front. And it was a mistake to be the one behind here.

I would have thought that the number of people who are going to buy a PS4Pro AND a UHD blu-ray player is very small indeed, and if I was one such person I'd be in a bit of a snit about PS4Pro not having that functionality and I would go out of my way to buy a non-Sony stand alone player, because they are being dicks for withholding that functionality on PS4P. Conversely a stand alone player is not going to succeed or fail based on sales to PS4/PS4P owners buying one, the success of a stand alone player will be in its ability to sell to non-gamers who just want a UHD blu-ray player to watch movies. I would also be supremely pissed at Sony if they implemented UHD playback out of the blue and I wasted money buying a stand alone player. I think Sony needs to secretly get the word out that a future firmware update will implement UHD/HDR playback and that people who buy a separate player in addition to a PS4P do so because they are impatient to get a UHD player and not because they think PS4P will never be capable of it, or not capable of it for a long period of time.

There doesn't actually seem to be much of a business case for withholding UHD playback on PS4P, unless of course there is a significant price differential between PS4P and UHD blu ray skus. In which case one might ask why is there a big difference in price of the technology is the same, and a stand alone player has much less functionality (i.e. it can't play games).

I think Sony got caught with their pants down wrt MS implementing UHD blu-ray in the Xb oneS, and the only reason there's any delay in UHD functionality for PS4P is because they need to prep the firmware update to implement it. I will be very surprise if the first significant firmware update after PS4P launch will include UHD playback. Of course, Sony might not put out a significant firmware update unti January or February, which means they will try to catch some holiday sales for the stand alone player.

I implied that video elitists can't accept a gimped player that can't output trueHD. The sales advantage was there because of the hype and slim version and the 4K + HDR thing. UHD  BD player is least among them. The question is whether they can sustain them with PS4 Pro and Slim release.



Xxain on 13 September 2016
KLXVER said:
Xxain said:

That is not SONY's problem. They are not obligated to include a 4K player,and by not having the feature its not their fault you gotta buy a product unrelated to PS line. They're not railroaing you into anything. Thats like walking into McDonald's and asking for a chicken big mac, something theve never advertised as a thing, then blaming them because you got buy a big mac and a chicken sandwich now. That is just stupid. 

Not if the PS4Pro can play 4K movies with just an update and Sony is hiding that fact in order for people to buy their BR players separately.

Dude still no. 

PS4 is a video games console first and foremost. Can you watch movies, take pics, access the internet? Yes, but are they features SONY is obligated to include in their console? No. If you dont have a 4K player right now its not SONY's fault. If you dont have a 4K player after the PRO is released its still not SONY's fault. The only way you wou would be right is if SONY was the only 4k manufacturer on planet, and even then it would be iffy because neither of the PS4 consoles were ever advertised as being 4K players even if they have the ability to so in the future.

SONY halting all $250 PS4 consoles so they can force the $499 Bundle  - Railroading, because SONY is only PS manufacturer and in complete control of that. 

SONY not including a 4K player like you wished, so you now you have to buy your own from hundreds of choices? Too bad. SONY, MS and Nintendo are not obligated  to ensure you got games machines ,internet,video, networks apps, and porn all in one package. They are only obligated for the games part and everything else can be included or excluded based on their bottom line .... Assuming they didnt advertise it as such to begin with.



joeorc on 14 September 2016

It's not about hiding the fact..the HDMi controller inside the PS4 was able to be updated to HDR , because it was 2.0a compliant.

The BD-UHD optical dive is a BDxL optical Drive Sony has indeed a BDxL optical drive inside the PS4..it can read layers past two layers..Sony did not want to pay the licence's for UHD playback, it most likely saved a few $ , without that functionality.. And it's very likely Sony feels no reason to update the Drive for UHD playback, because the HDMi port controller chip has a Upscaler inside...

See for yourself..

http://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2013/09/en130912-4/en130912-4.html

The Panasonic series MN8647 series of Controllers have a Upscaler and are 2.0a compliant..

Before people say how , take a read:

[PS4 Pro will also be able to run games with a 4K resolution and HDR, while the PS4 Slim and regular PS4 will only be able to run games at 1080p with HDR. It's important to mention that every PlayStation 4 will support the HDR10 format, not Dolby Vision. This is important because HDR content is made for either HDR10 or Dolby Vision. Though we doubt this will be much of a problem in the future, as the PlayStation 4 family and Xbox One S both will only support HDR10 content.]

http://www.gamereactor.eu/articles/462933/What+is+4K+HDR,+and+which+consoles+will+support+it/?noad

Evidently even game reactor does not know about the HDMi controller has an hardware upscaler.

Remember the ps4 FAQ:

Will PS4 support 4K content for video or gaming?
Support for high-resolution 4K output for still images and movie content is in consideration, but there are no further details to share at this time. PS4 does not currently support 4K output for games.


http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/10/30/ps4-the-ultimate-faq-north-america/



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

SvennoJ on 14 September 2016
joeorc said:

It's not about hiding the fact..the HDMi controller inside the PS4 was able to be updated to HDR , because it was 2.0a compliant.

The BD-UHD optical dive is a BDxL optical Drive Sony has indeed a BDxL optical drive inside the PS4..it can read layers past two layers..Sony did not want to pay the licence's for UHD playback, it most likely saved a few $ , without that functionality.. And it's very likely Sony feels no reason to update the Drive for UHD playback, because the HDMi port controller chip has a Upscaler inside..

It's a 6x CAV drive, it's simply not fast enough for 4K UHD discs. Unless they can patch it to spin faster....