Torillian said:
Vinther1991 said: I stumbled upon this article, that picks that ridiculous video apart point by point. http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-has-parkinsons-disease/ Even before reading that, most people's alarm clocks should be ringing when a doctor tries to diagnose parkinson (which he isn't even expert in) solely by video clips, and claiming that he isn't politically motivated, when he so obviously is. I haven't got much else to add, except that if she was indeed suffering from advanced parkinson as Dr. Noel claims, she wouldn't be able to multitask that effectively (hidding parkinson syndromes while doing a politcal speech for instance), and she would already show loss of interllectual functions, if it would be as "advanced" as Dr. Noel claims. |
I really appreciate the snopes link. Was an interesting read as it gave me the gyst of the parkinsons argument and the reasons its a load of crap which is the only way I think I'd want to read about such an idiotic hypothesis.
Also quoting so that hopefully some will give this a read and calm their "fears". For the record those quotes are meant to denote sarcasm. It's difficult in text.
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The article provides some valid counter points, some invalid ones, and completely ignores one of the most startling and bizzare incident the doctor commented on. Here is my take: (bits taken from the article are bolded)
"That doesn't mean he's incapable of recognizing symptoms of Parkinson's disease, but consider this: If your primary care doctor suspected you had Parkinson's and wished to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis, it would be to a neurologist, not an anesthesiologist."
First of all, he says this at the beginning of the video "I can't claim that what I'm about to tell you is a conclusive diagnosis.", he is not DIAGNOSING her, he is commenting on some of her most bizzare incidents. Maybe he isn't picky with words and not as careful as he should've been as he goes on explaining his arguments, but he did tell us from the very beginning, he's not diagnosing her.
To the second point, being an anesthesiologist doesn't mean you CAN'T DIAGNOSE a patient or notice the symptoms. Do I really have to go to an internist to be diagnosed with hypertension? No, many doctors can do that. When a common disease is that common, it becomes highly tested and heavily discussed in medical books and exams. Especially in the US, they might not have the best health care system but it's one of hardest places to get a medical degree. Rigorous testing and training on medical conditions that includes common diseases like Parkinson.
Finally, I can't stress enough, he said this: "I can't claim that what I'm about to tell you is a conclusive diagnosis."
"2. Dr. Noel has never conducted a medical examination of the patient (Hillary Clinton) he purports to diagnose."
Is what he doing ethical? Of course not.
Is what he doing politcally motivated? Obviously, yes.
If you see someone coughing and wheezing and getting an obvious asthmatic attack, will you not say to yourself "this guy person probably has asthma"?
If you see a heavy smoker coughing constantly, would it be out of this world to suggest he has chronic bronchitis without examining him?
If some doctor sees someone in the strees walking with a rash on his skin, the doctor will get ideas about what's going on with that person. Is the doctor gonna walk up to that person with a rash and conduct a medical exam? Of course not. Can the doctor think of possible causes for the rash without medically examinning the patient? YES, but he can't claim a diagnosis, he can list possible causes in his head and move on. If that person comes to his clinic one day, he will examine him and build on that list of causes he came up to earlier.
This is what the doctor in the youtube video said, what's he seeing SUGGESTS a possible case of Parkinson. He can't confirm it.
"That's after Noel has described Clinton as a politician who lies about everything, What is the that, if not precisely confusing medical and political issues?"
The anesthesiologist definitely mixed things up and his political motivation was clear throughout the video, so yes, I agree, that was uncalled for. Although, his statement can be applied to many politicians.
"Noel is a conspiracy theorist, We're not just throwing that out as a dismissive epithet; we mean he is a conspiracy theorist."
Yes, he is providing a theory that explains extremely bizzare incidents Hillary has displayed on public. Nothing new here
"In simpler terms, Provigil is used to treat excessive sleepiness. Sometimes that excessive sleepiness is in Parkinson's and Alzheimer's patients. Other times it's in people suffering from sleep apnea, narcolepsy, or shift work sleep disorder. Is it accurate to describe Provigil as "a new Parkinson's disease drug"? No."
The author of the article is completley on point here. Hillary discussing Provigil does not mean or indicate or even support the anesthesiologist's suspicion.
"But, in fact, if you watch more of the video than the few seconds Noel shows us, and with the audio turned on, you see that she's clearly using these gestures to emphasize verbal statements, and to suggest to the audience that they're heartfelt. Plus, she transitions easily in and out of these hand gestures, never once displaying anything like a "tremor" when she's not using them."
I wasn't convinced she is displaying tremors either. I am with the article on that one.
"Noel claims, "but this time it's from the treatment, not the disease. It's an example of Parkinson's disease levadopa-induced dyskinesia, or PD LID." But no, it's not. As we reported previously, the journalists surrounding her at that moment saw nothing amiss or disturbing in her actions."
BUT THEY DID, skip to 0:30 and see how the woman in front of her is startled by what's happening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd4NH9jKNas
Cold Chocolate, really? Why did she need to justify what happened if this what happened was normal in the first place?
Finally, the article COMPLETELY IGNORES WHAT HAPPENED HERE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk6kJqINnZs
Providing no counter arguments or explanations to the extremely odd Hillary's freeze.
Notice how Hillary's doctor jumps to her within seconds as if he was expecting something like this to happen any minute. How in the world did he know she was gonna stop talking and that she needed help "getting her out" of that freeze anyway?
It's completely unnatural.
One more thing the article ignores, the coughing fits.
The chronic coughing fits, her saliva constantly goes down the wrong tube and her voice changes, recently, she started throwing the word "allergy" to explain what's happening.
The cough is so severe and so frequent it's affecting her lifestyle and her speeches. Not only the coughing fits are frequent, but they are always the same, and they all end affecting her voice, because the vocal cords gets wet by her own saliva. I know this happens to ALL OF US, we all swallow some saliva and it goes down the wrong tube and we develop similar coughing fits and hoarse voice, but not it's never that frequent or that severe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld-yRgZL-8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C12ZvOJNfs
Thanks to those cough and those swallowing problem, pneumonia is much commoner in patients with neurological swallowing disorders, including parkinson's. Not to say that her current pneumonia is caused by her swallowing problems, I actually posted the thread before we knew she had pneumonia.
Finally, if you find the speculation about her health conditions is unreasonable. Cool, I don't mind that. I personally find it interesting and worth discussing, she is 68 and she is not getting any younger, it's not out of this world to suggest she has common medical conditions. I hope she is healthy after all.