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Forums - General Discussion - How US tech corporations avoid taxes

What needs to happen is countries to slap large sales taxes/tarrif on all goods sold from countries like Ireland until they stop screwing other countries with a tax system designed to import jobs into the country at the expense of everyone else.



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nanarchy said:

What needs to happen is countries to slap large sales taxes/tarrif on all goods sold from countries like Ireland until they stop screwing other countries with a tax system designed to import jobs into the country at the expense of everyone else.

Should they do the same for US companies as well then? Seeing as there are more Irish jobs in America than American jobs in Ireland? Or is this just a bully the little guy thing? Or maybe you just have no idea what you're talking about and believe everything Fox News tells you?

 

The USA makes these deals all the time and taxes small companies at 40% while making deals with larger companies. Ireland taxes all companies at 12.5% on profits made IN Ireland. The USA can drop its tax if it's so wishes. Apple paid the 12.5% tax but only on profits made in Ireland, while the EU says they should pay tax on profits made in all EU countries. Ireland can't force them to do that. The EU commission, who made the ruling are not democratically elected. It's all a pathetic farce. Apple are an American company. Ireland can't force them to do anything with regards to profits from outside of Ireland. The EU is trying though. The US has said they shouldn't pay it. 

 

If they paid tax in every country on their profits in that country, Ireland wouldn't be affected in any way. That's what was supposed to happen. Thus, Ireland didn't take anything from anyone. Apple did and abused international tax treaties and took a dump on Ireland in the process. In basic math terms, they are putting the figure they paid on Irish tax profits, and putting it over the entire amount owed for the entire EU. Ireland never had the power to take that amount. Thus, our tax rate, that we charge on profits made in Ireland is not relevant!!



Read this article. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37259278

 

Note that all the nations listed as low tax are also low population. They have a tiny market. Note, the countries whining are all large and large population. Large market countries. The outcome will be bullying small countries into ruin. The big boys want to tax companies more so they will make tax relevant to market size. How do you do this? By taxing sales. So they should do that. That would make sense. It's the only way to make 100% sure that countries get the tax revenue they desire. So why don't they do that? God knows. They are too scared that small countries are being made more powerful by hosting large corps.  So the big boys want to charge sales tax, vat and then charge corps again on their remaining profits. While small countries don't have the revenue on sales. This isn't a small countries fault. 

 

Note also, that the large population countries have large corporations set in their countries. A fair share of them actually. Nobody is whining about them though. They just want a larger proportion of the small country based corporations, profit. Ok so tax them on sales!! Duh!! 



nanarchy said:

What needs to happen is countries to slap large sales taxes/tarrif on all goods sold from countries like Ireland until they stop screwing other countries with a tax system designed to import jobs into the country at the expense of everyone else.

 

hershel_layton said:
LadyJasmine said:

 

I was find it hilarious people say capitalism sucks, yet every country that is seen as the best has capitalism.

 

The flaw is not capitalism, the flaw is how much of a role government plays in capitalism.

 

Reality is big government is wasteftul and not effective and becomes power hungary. Big business has no compassion or heart or any sense of purpose to a greater purpose. 

He didn't say capitalism sucks.

 

It doesn't. I'd be lying to myself if I said it's worse than the likes of socialism or any other system. However, with the current condition it is in, capitalism is allowing companies to find exploits, avoid taxes, and cheat the middle class.

 

Edit: By capitalism, I'm referring to the first world's economic system. It hurts me when I see that companies like Apple, Google, Samsung, and others do everything they can to avoid taxes and gain as much profit as possible

Then why dont you understand that capitalism is flawed when its not controlled by government effectively, which in this case is by having correct levels of taxation.

 

Ireland is the country that allowed this deal.

 

I expect Apple to act better but to be honest I say companies as like people, if there is no law in place people will take advantage of certain situations.



It is ridiculous that the EU commission can tell Ireland to do anything about their taxes. Ireland is a sovereign country and should have complete dominion over their taxes, compliance and tax collection. It is totally up to the country whether they charge 50% or .001% in corporation tax and then instead tax the workers personal income at a larger or smaller rate to compensate.

A few years ago during the financial crisis, Ireland was blackmailed by the ECB to take a bailout instead of allowing European (mainly German) investors lose their worthless investments. Where was the EU commission then?

The only outcome of this will be that it will hurt a small peripheral open economy. It will destroy jobs and future growth. (Ireland is currently the fastest growing country in the EU according to GDP).

Where did they even come up with this 13 billion? It is a totally outrageous figure and almost double what the highest estimate was in the lead up to the investigation.
It stinks of a cash grab and a step towards tax harmonisation... Which will only benefit central EU countries such as Germany, France and Denmark, who are most responsible for this investigation.

It just goes to show the imbalance of power and the bullying of smaller nations. During a football match between Germany and Ireland... The German commentators kept calling the Irish team, the "potato men" when they were beating the home team.
They didn't even accept the vote years ago on the Nice treaty. When it was defeated, they put it to Ireland again a few months later. How is that democratic?



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Xbrah said:
It is ridiculous that the EU commission can tell Ireland to do anything about their taxes. Ireland is a sovereign country and should have complete dominion over their taxes, compliance and tax collection. It is totally up to the country whether they charge 50% or .001% in corporation tax and then instead tax the workers personal income at a larger or smaller rate to compensate.

A few years ago during the financial crisis, Ireland was blackmailed by the ECB to take a bailout instead of allowing European (mainly German) investors lose their worthless investments. Where was the EU commission then?

The only outcome of this will be that it will hurt a small peripheral open economy. It will destroy jobs and future growth. (Ireland is currently the fastest growing country in the EU according to GDP).

Where did they even come up with this 13 billion? It is a totally outrageous figure and almost double what the highest estimate was in the lead up to the investigation.
It stinks of a cash grab and a step towards tax harmonisation... Which will only benefit central EU countries such as Germany, France and Denmark, who are most responsible for this investigation.

It just goes to show the imbalance of power and the bullying of smaller nations. During a football match between Germany and Ireland... The German commentators kept calling the Irish team, the "potato men" when they were beating the home team.
They didn't even accept the vote years ago on the Nice treaty. When it was defeated, they put it to Ireland again a few months later. How is that democratic?

The thing is Ireland granted Apple a Taxbenefit they did not give to other companies. They enjoy the benefits of the EU Market. Apple would not be there in the first place without Ireland being in the EU.

There are certain rules that every country has to follow that is in the EU its written in books and every country agrees to that.

Their elected officials agree to that. Also the benefit would be good for Ireland. As Apple can not really abandon Ireland they need to be there for their EU Buisness.

The 13 Billion would go to pay off part of Irelands dept. Which in turn would improve credit ratings and Ireland would have to pay less interest which could be invested in other things like Infrastructures. Ireland really has no place to complain that they have to follow rules they agreed up on. Lets think about it without being in the EU there would have been no money from Apple before and definetly no money now from them.

Same for other companies. Ireland has the right to set their own taxes but they also have to follow EU Regulations in doing so and since Apple used a special Loophole so they would not even have to pay the 12.5% which by EU regulations was not allowed they pretty much can not do anything. 

Nobody in  Ireland should complain as Ireland could have his cake (get Apple to be there) And now EU makes sure that Ireland eats the cake aswell.  And best thing is there will be more cake in the future. So EU benefited Ireland in countless ways. 

Apple pays just a months profits to EU thats nothing for them as of right now the Billions are just on accounts numbers that nobody uses and cant be transported to USA as there would be a huge cut for the IRS which Apple does not want to give. 

The case is also not decided should Ireland be in the right Apple will not have to pay anything if Ireland went against EU Legislation  then Apple will have to give money to Ireland.  And Ireland has to begrudingly accept piles of cash. 



I'm not even angry at Apple. They know the truth that income taxes are a fraud.

Paying taxes is pointless anyway at this point. Most of the west is bankrupt, and the debt will only pile on no matter what happens. Fiat is debt itself so what is there to pay off...?



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
I'm not even angry at Apple. They know the truth that income taxes are a fraud.

Paying taxes is pointless anyway at this point. Most of the west is bankrupt, and the debt will only pile on no matter what happens. Fiat is debt itself so what is there to pay off...?

Taking money out of the system makes the rest automatically more valuable and decreases dept. With Apple paying dept it means someone else does not have to pay for it. 



Netyaroze said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
I'm not even angry at Apple. They know the truth that income taxes are a fraud.

Paying taxes is pointless anyway at this point. Most of the west is bankrupt, and the debt will only pile on no matter what happens. Fiat is debt itself so what is there to pay off...?

Taking money out of the system makes the rest automatically more valuable and decreases dept. With Apple paying dept it means someone else does not have to pay for it. 

Lol. You clearly understand nothing of debt, my friend. Debt is fiat and fiat is debt.

If you wish to know, why the world debt can and will never be repayed, please watch the link below:

Link

It's part 4 of 5 part series. It gives a nice history lesson about the very nature of money.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Netyaroze said:

Taking money out of the system makes the rest automatically more valuable and decreases dept. With Apple paying dept it means someone else does not have to pay for it. 

Lol. You clearly understand nothing of debt, my friend. Debt is fiat and fiat is debt.

If you wish to know, why the world debt can and will never be repayed, please watch the link below:

Link

It's part 4 of 5 part series. It gives a nice history lesson about the very nature of money.

I saw this video already, the whole series.  Money symbolizes debt. Debt can not be eliminated but reduced.