Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:
I think there's a slide that claims 625 Gigaflop performance for the Parker/Pascal X2, but Nvidia has also apparently said 750 Gigaflop, I think the discrepancy might be that Nvidia wasn't including floating point performance for the CPU in one of their examples, I dunno. |
It could be all of the above.
Gflop is Physical shader units * 2 * Clock speed, it may be accounting for clockspeed changes thanks to Turbo.
Werix357 said:
The performance jump from X1 seems like it will be more the on the CPU side
Yeah I'm only going on rumors Also if Nintendo were using the X1 then development kits would have been out early 2015 not this year.
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Denver 2 should be able to out-bench Jaguar. But... And this is the big but. There is only 2 of those cores plus the other Quad Arm cores.
Jaguar has more cores which should make up for the single-core performance deficiency.
I would probably need to spend more time looking at the lower-level details to know how they stack up though...
But in the end, we need to keep things in perspective. Both Jaguar and Tegra X2 has Tablet levels of CPU performance which is ultimately nothing to write home about.
Werix357 said:
Yeah if it uses this chip it will be a great portable console, but i think Mobile SoC's are still bandwidth limited which is probably one of the reasons Nvidia stuck with 256 CUDA cores
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It's actually due to energy consumption, not bandwidth.
nVidia actually doubled the memory bus and improved bandwidth efficiency by roughly 20%.
However... Tegra X1 was built at 20nm, not 28nm.
Tegra X2 is actually being built at a "20nm FinFet" that has been branded as 16nm FF.
Basically there hasn't really been a geometric feature size shrink to reduce power consumption like what we saw on the Desktop PC.
torok said:
Mind that mobile devices usually go for extremely high resolutions, with most high-end devices using 1080p or 1440p screens. As those are pretty expensive, I can see Nintendo using a 720p-900p screen to cut costs and also avoid taxing the GPU. It's more like what Vita did with a 540p, it has a bunch of games that still look better than current high-end mobile games.
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Whilst correct that mobile devices usually have high resolution panels... It's another matter entirely natively running them at those resolutions, mobile devices usually upscale everything.
Soundwave said:
Yeah LCD displays are the least of Nintendo's worries. I see 1280x800 7-inch tablets for like $99 retail. They'll be able to get a decent screen for dirt cheap thanks to the mobile boom those components cost peanuts now. It might actually cost more money for them to find a screen that's lower resolution than that because no one makes them, lol.
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Needs to be a decent panel type though, if it's Twisted Nematic... Shoot me now.
Verticle Alignment panels I would be fine with...
In-Pane Switching panels I would prefer, if it has a high refresh rate.
dongo8 said:
I think we also have to keep in mind that there is a high probability that the chip(s) going into the NX is/are most likely custom chips, so while the specs are interesting to look at, they most likely don't match exactly what will be in the NX. I can't wait until we get some official details of the darn thing! Another month or so...jeeeeeeeez
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The chips will be semi-custom at most. Not custom.. There is a very big difference between the two.
Stefan51278 said:
Not a huge difference in perfomance you say? With doubled memory bandwith?
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It's actually more than doubled in the real world.
JEMC said:
Nintendo said that it wanted to appeal both casuals and core gamers, not that they wanted to get PS4 ports.
They can appeal to "core gamers" by, given that they won't need to develop 2 versions of several games (as always, if they go hybrid), develop new IPs that can appeal to that market like Splatoon or Xenoblade do.
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If nVidia uses Transmeta's code morphing tech in Denver 2 successfully... Ports might actually be really simple and easy, still won't be optimal as building a game/engine natively for the hardware though, but certainly a better predicament than the Wii U is in.
Miyamotoo said:
I wanted to wrote that, Nintendo always uses custom chips, in this case most likely custom design of X2.
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As chips grow in size, feature more transisters and become more intricate and do more... The less financially feasible it is to have custom designs.
It will be semi-custom at most, it will still be Tegra, but with a couple of minor changes to suit what Nintendo wants, but overall it's still Tegra.
JRPGfan said:
Yep 625 Gflops is the same number Ive read other places too.
Maybe the NX will have this when its docked and can use more power, than when its used as a handheld.
Still this means at most it ll be 1/3 of the PS4, in terms of power (when docked and not downclocked).
Pretty powerfull for a handheld. Not that great in terms of a home console.
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No.
Werix357 said:
Yeah I get what you're saying but from a business perspective it would be smart to make an SoC that can be used for multiple purposes. CPU'S have always been a weak spot for portable consoles and from what I've read about the PX2 is that the majority of the drive focused stuff is external to the CPU and GPU portion of the chip
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To be fair though... CPU's have slowly becoming more and more irrellevent for gaming as time goes on.
If we were to go back to the early days of the PS1... Things like lighting calculations would have been done on the CPU, eventually they were moved onto the GPU.
Of course there will always be a need for CPU's as serialised processing is better suited to being done on the CPU with high levels of serial performance rather than parallel based processors like the GPU.
FunFan said:
History says Nintendo likes custom chips. For better or worse. |
Things change though... Technology doesn't stand still for no one.
CaptainExplosion said:
Do we have specific examples of this happening to games?
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Yes. Go look up the benchmarks at Anandtech.com
Because there are different types of Flops.
The X1 is indeed theoretically capable of that claimed number.
shikamaru317 said:
X2 is 625 gflop FP32, which is more than the 512 gflop FP32 of X1. I assume that FP16 will see an improvement over X1 as well.
625 gflops FP32 is kind of disappointing though, I was hoping for around 800 gflops FP32 for X2.
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FP16 is usually double the performance of FP32 with Tegra.
So it should be 1250 Gflop for Tegra X2 in FP16 tasks.
Not that's actually that important anyway.
JRPGfan said:
Nvidia reports FP16 performance, when they mention how strong their Tegra X1 is... why? cuz big numbers fool people.
Sony & MS 's consoles are useing FP32 (twice as demanding) (16 x 2 = 32). Also known as half or full floating points.
Thats why Tegra X1 is 1tflop fp16, but only 500 Gflops when you meassure it the same way as the PS4 or XB1.
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FP16 is important because it's actually important for mobile, it's what the majority of mobile applications use due to the energy efficiency advantages it brings.
AMD's GCN 1.0 doesn't have native hardware support for it though because it's not a mobile centric architecture first and foremost.
AMD's GCN 4.0 does have Half Precision support with performance equivalent to single precision, which is likely what Scorpio and Neo will be based on.
Contrary to popular belief, it's not some conspiracy theory from nVidia to make it's hardware seem more capable than it really is... People just need to learn what floating point is all about.
nomad said:
If it hasn't been said yet, then I'll say it. That is not a mobile SoC. |
It actually is though.
The architecture scales depending on clock/voltage so it can go from Tablets up to Industrial or Servers.
zorg1000 said:
Sure it will, remember if the rumors are true than this is a successor to both 3DS AND Wii U. When combined those devices get a solid amount of 3rd party support from Japanese, indie & kid/family friendly games.
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I think 3rd party support will come down to how successfull the device is.
It's one thing to scale your game downwards to suit weaker hardware... It's another thing entirely for it to be financially viable if you don't have a market.
Mbolibombo said:
Ok, makes sense. Always read about the fp16 number and thought to myself that 1Tflop aint that bad, and it fits right in to the Xbox One mold of performance especially if they went with X2's... but but but.. wasnt that good afterall :<
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The Xbox One is vastly superior in multiple aspects.
Soundwave said:
Nintendo needs to break that distinction, the NX is not a rinky dinky little cute handheld.
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It will be a beast for a handheld, a little more moderate for a dedicated stationary gaming device though.
I think it will be a little more potent than some people realise... And a bit weaker than what some other people realise as well.
To me it's a good middle ground between the Wii U and the Xbox One, like a half-gen device, just with more modern graphics effects.
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