"I'm talking about games like COD or GTA or Uncharted or Halo or Destiny or whatever ... I mean sure I think it can be reasonably said that it's been almost 20 years since Nintendo has been able to create anything themselves that would fit into that demographic appeal. GoldenEye was the last time really. "

Ok... and..?  That demographic is not the entirety of the Playstation market, nor is it vital for a successful console.  If your point is they don't make M rated games or shooters, then fine, but that's not what they do, nor what they need to.  

They're just not very fucking good at appealling to teenage boys and college age players. They never really have been either, their marketing has always sucked for this group. And beyond that they have no shown any track record of being able to make and market successfully games for that group. 

Smash Bros is definitely popular among the college crowd, as is Mario Kart, among others.  College is not just COD players nor are teenage boys.

Yeah they were able to kinda change the rules of the game for a little with the Wii fad, but that was never going to last forever, and even on the Wii, a system that sold 100 million units, Metroid Prime 3, Sin & Punishment 2, Xenoblade, The Last Story ... none of these types of games broke out to sell even 2 million copies. Not even 2 million. They would've probably sold about the same on the GameCube. 

Yeah... because those were niche games..?  You say "not even 2 million" like every game is supposed to sell 2 million.  Sin and Punishment was a sequel to an obscure on rails shooter from the N64.  Last Story and Xenoblade were JRPGs that weren't supposed to release in the west.  

Are there a lot of on rails shooters and JRPGS selling through the roof on the PS3 and XBox 360?  Outside of Final Fantasy what JRPG franchises are setting the world on fire?  I'm not sure what you're trying to show, because again you're using vague terms like "these kinds of games", but these are bad examples.  Metroid Prime 3 is the only game you can really say underperformed, and even that's debatable.

Well I mean you can say "well I'm not saying go against MS/Sony, but it's better than X" ... well then basically you kinda are saying go against MS/Sony. 

No, I'm not.  If I said, "I'd rather have sex with Rosie O Donell then have my balls dipped in boiling corn oil" then am I saying that I want to have sex with Rosie?

Nintendo's in a tough spot really because there is no clear audience for them, but going after kids and Japan makes some degree of sense. 90% of their popular IP are mascot cartoon characters. I mean if you can't get kids, then really ... you never had a future in the dedicated hardware business anyway. It's like a person who is quite smart but not very good looking thinking they should go into a modelling career ... it's just not where their natural talents probably lie. 

That's not a viable strategy.  Kids should be a part of their strategy, but kids alone are not going to keep them afloat. But, even if we agreed on that, I don't see what makes the rumored NX especially appealing to children.

Like I said, the support will likely come from a combination of Japanese, indie & family friendly titles which are all 3 categories that Nintendo gets solid support from. Basic western support similar to what Wii U had initially would certainly be welcome and would give NX a pretty well rounded library.

Not really.  Indie support is better relative to their retail product support, but they still lag incredibly far behind their competitors.  Ditto for Japanese games.

Its not that Nintendo cant release a powerful device with the intention of getting PS4/XB1 ports, its that they wont and shouldnt. Why would people buy a device released in the middle of the generation to play games that are on devices they already own? They wont and it will then be Nintendo games that are the only major differentiator.......so basically Wii U, a device late to the party designed to get ports with a few big exclusives each year.

I totally agree.  It's just that their (rumored) alternative is an even worse strategy.

There are certainly many benefits for gamers by going with a unified system. One of which is being able to play all your games on a single device instead of having to buy 2 seperate devices to get full access to the Nintendo ecosystem.

We don't know the price of the thing, so we don't know how much of an advantage this will be.  Considering the prices of Nintendo's handhelds, this isn't a huge selling point.  

For example, lets say someone is interested in Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, Splatoon, Mario Maker, Bayonetta & Xenoblade X. That person would need to spend $500 in hardware to play those 8 games and would have to own 2 seperate devices and they couldnt play half those games on the go or the other half on the TV. They may pass on getting either device, but if they had the option to buy a single $250 device that played all 8 of those games on the TV or on the go, wouldnt they be more likely to go with that option? I certainly think so.

Five hundred dollars in hardware?  Wii U is only $300 and will come with one of the games they want.  2DS is 100.  So that's 400.  There's no real indication that the NX will be $250.  That's just an assumption you're throwing in to shift the balance.   Playing handheld games on a TV is nothing to write home about, since you could accomplish that with an HDMI out.  Playing your home games on a handheld is nice, but not worth the gimped graphics.

More importantly though, in your hypothetical, you're talking about someone who is already interested in Nintendo products.  If the person was that interested, they'd probably wind up with  a Nintendo system either way.  Maybe a few more would buy it this way, but not a whole lot more.

If Nintendo is going to be successful, they need to reach outside of the people who are already interested in their games.  And this is not going to do it.

From what I have read because the Pascal design and Nvidia ports from x86 will be a non issue. 

Yeah pretty much have the same opinion. Nintendo have segregated themselves from pretty large audience, which is never smart as it is hard to win back an audience you've shunned.

Also Nintendo was never going to win that audience back with games like ZombieU or Bayonetta 2.

Nintendo does have solid support from those 3 categories, its really not even debatable.

Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Just Dance, Rayman, Sonic, Shin Megami Tensei, Runbow, SteamWorld, Fast Racing Neo, Guitar Hero, Skylanders, Disney Infinity, Yokai Watch, Professor Layton, Ace Attorney, Lego Dimensions/Avengers/Jurassic World/etc, Mighty Switch Force, Xeodrifter, Hatsune Miku, Ninja Turtles, Transformers, Disney Magical World, Etrian Odessey, Persona Q, Story of Seasons, Legend of Legacy, How To Train Your Dragon, Minecraft, Terraria, Gunman Clive, Extreme Exorcism, Affordable Space Adventures, Senran Kagura, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Resident Evil Revelations, Pac-Man Adventures, Final Fantasy Explorers, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Attack on Titan, Adventure Time, Regular Show, Popolocrois, 7th Dragon, Shantae, Oddworld, Harvest Moon, Fantasy Life, Rune Factory, Gravity Falls, Bravely Default, Theatrythm, Mutant Mudds, Axiom Verge, Freedom Planet, Art of Balance, Nano Assault, etc.

Nintendo does currently have solid 3rd party support among Japanese, indie & kid/family games.

Yes, $500, Wii U has been $300 since launch and the premium 3DS sku has been $200 for 4 years. But yes if you want to use 2DS instead its $400 so $400-500 in hardware to get the full Nintendo ecosystem.

And of course we dont know the price, im just saying a theoretical $250 hybrid device is potentially more appealing than having to buy 2 seperate devices that cost a combined $400-500.

Gimped graphics? Compared to what? If these rumors are true and NX uses the X2 than it will be like 3-4 times as powerful as Wii U and like 100 times as powerful as 3DS. Just because something isnt the most powerful device on the market does not mean its gimped.

There are millions of people who like various Nintendo franchises that dont own a Nintendo device for one reason or another. Making the barrier for entry lower while increasing the software output is a great way to get these people to take the plunge.

And i agree that Nintendo needs to attract people who arent already interested in their products hence why i pointed out that a unified library allows them to cut back on redundant titles and make more new IP.

Just out of curiosity, what do you believe is the best course of action for Nintendo?

What I said regarding indie support is that they lag far behind their competitors, and I don't think you can deny that.  As for the other support, it's ok but not great.  When you have to include titles like Ninja Turtles and Transformers to fluff up the list, it kind of shows weakness.  If you call that solid support, then fine.  I wouldn't.

The 250 figure you're putting forth seems unlikely.  The New Nintendo 3DS XL currently costs 200.  Seems unlikely that the NX would cost only 50 dollars more than that.  If it actually comes out at that price, then I guess I'd have to reevaluate.  

Gimped graphics are obviously compared to the XBox One and PS4.  These are the products the NX will inevitably be compared to, and the systems from which they're most likely to get ports from.  If you don't like the word gimped, you can change that, but the comparison between NX and XBox One is way more relevant than NX vs Wii U.

The amount of gamers that are on the fence about Nintendo is far less than you imagine IMO.  The 3DS is fairly cheap and has a pretty good library, so that should give you a good idea of what the ceiling is for Nintendo.  If you'd consider selling as well as the 3DS a success, it may be able to do that, but I'd say that would be a major disappointment.

As for what I believe is the best course of action, I would say the best thing they could do (although I'm positive they won't) would be to have their system based around some sort of service based program.  Not streaming, but more like a Playstation plus deal except every game is free to download, and keep as long as you're subscribed.  

The current model we have for videogames is archaic.  We don't buy music like that anymore, and we don't by movies like that either.  The videogame industry needs to catch up in this regard.

In particular, this is big for getting causal gamers to buy into it.  Sixty dollars a game is a lot even for passionate gamers, so it's going to prevent casual gamers from continuing to play.  That was a big problem with the Wii where getting casuals to buy the system was easy, but it was hard getting those people to reach out beyond titles with Wii and Mario in the title.  A subscription program would allow them to try a wider variety of games, and would help turn them into less casual gamers and keep their systems active.  

It would give Nintendo easy access to third party games.  Assuming third parties are selling the rights for the game to Nintendo, then the risk would be on Nintendo and not on them.  Nintendo would  have a strong pitch to Sony or Microsoft gamers.  Instead of buying a game for 60 bucks, get 2 or 3 months of service and play as many as you like.  They could also sell games a la carte as well for the more passionate collectores.  

Obviously, there are HUGE logistical difficulties involved in this, but it's such a fantasy that it's not really worth delving into.  This may not be the best way to go about it, but distribution will be the next revolution in gaming, and the first company to nail it down will control the industry (Sony at least has a head start).

In terms of hardware, something along the lines of the Wii.  It needs to be something that can do things you can't do on a tablet, and preferably not on the XBone or PS4 either.  Whether that's a new motion control system or something else entirely I don't know.  The specs have to be in the same ballpark as the XBox One or PS4. Doesn't have to be better, but it needs to be good enough so that ports are not an issue.

Idk Nintendo's indie support has been growing steadily for the last few years, i honestly wouldnt be surprised if they had equel or better indie support than XBO.

As for why i included games based on movies/shows for kids is because one of the 3 categories i said Nintendo gets strong support from is child friendly software. I thought that was kinda self explanatory.

The reason why i compare it to Wii U/3DS is because this is their successor, it makes more sense to compare games/franchises to their predeccessors. This device would allow for a MASSIVE visual upgrade for games like Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, etc. and even on the console side thats a pretty nice boost for games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Xenoblade, etc.

Its like saying a $500 hybrid tablet/laptop is gimped because its not as capable as a $1000+ desktop, ya i guess thats technically true but they arent meant to compete directly against one another so the point is moot.

I agree that their are benefits of a subscription service and that the gaming model could use a shift but from Nintendo's perspective it doesnt make a whole lot of sense for new games. For example, Breath of the Wild has been in development for about 5 years and is one of the most ambitious and most likely expensive games they have ever made, does it really make financial sense to include that in a subscription service?

I think something like that for Virtual Console releases could work but for brand new releases? Definitely not.

Outside of not being as powerful as PS4/XBO isnt this device kinda what you just explained? It offers a different experience than tablets as well as a different experience from PS4/XBO. And if the point is to offer a different experience than why does it need to recieve ports? That kinda defeats the purpose of differentiating if the end goal is still to have the same games. And as far as we know, the detachable controllers could be a new type of motion controllers.

Well why don't you suggest a direction they should take, lol. It's easy to say don't compete against Sony/MS, no aiming for kids isn't going to work, no that's not going to work, etc. etc. 

At the end of the day Nintendo has to make a decision, and it doesn't look like they have some kind of magical controller gimmick coming to bail them out this time either. 

They have to work with what they got. It looks to me like they have opted to double down on the kids/tablet gaming audience. Whether it works who knows. 

But they don't have the luxury on not choosing a direction. 

It's a tough market. It's not supposed to be easy. 

Meh, we still don't know anything solid on specs right, nor even OEM provider of GPU/CPU?

"Idk Nintendo's indie support has been growing steadily for the last few years, i honestly wouldnt be surprised if they had equel or better indie support than XBO.

As for why i included games based on movies/shows for kids is because one of the 3 categories i said Nintendo gets strong support from is child friendly software. I thought that was kinda self explanatory."

Nah, it's not.  And even further behind PS4.  When you said child friendly software, I assumed you meant things like Kirby or Skylanders, and not shovelware. 

"The reason why i compare it to Wii U/3DS is because this is their successor, it makes more sense to compare games/franchises to their predeccessors. This device would allow for a MASSIVE visual upgrade for games like Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, etc. and even on the console side thats a pretty nice boost for games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Xenoblade, etc.

Its like saying a $500 hybrid tablet/laptop is gimped because its not as capable as a $1000+ desktop, ya i guess thats technically true but they arent meant to compete directly against one another so the point is moot. "

Aside from the Nintendo fans who were already going to buy the system, who's going to be that excited that Fire Emblem looks better? This is about broadening their appeal.  "Our games look better than they used to but still not nearly as good as other games on the market" isn't going to really help.  One of the Wii U's selling points was "now in HD" but it didn't help all that much.

As for the competition... you do realize you're on a site that has the sales of Nintendo's consoles lined up against Microsoft and Sony regularly? This whole site is pretty much based on the context that they are competitiors.  This isn't like the tablet/PC industry where there are dozens of companies and hundreds of models.  Even if Nintendo is doing something unique like the Wii, there's still a pretty large degree of competition, which we can see by the Kinect and the Move.

I agree that their are benefits of a subscription service and that the gaming model could use a shift but from Nintendo's perspective it doesnt make a whole lot of sense for new games. For example, Breath of the Wild has been in development for about 5 years and is one of the most ambitious and most likely expensive games they have ever made, does it really make financial sense to include that in a subscription service?

Why not?  The average gamer is going to buy somewhere around 10 games for their system (typically less for Nintendo).  More like 6 for a handheld.  Assuming those are all full priced retail releases, that's about 600 dollars in revenue.  If you price the subscription at 25 dollars a month (which I think would be fairly reasonable), then that's going to be 300 dollars a year of revenue.  Assuming you can keep them for two years, that's the same amount of revenue. And of course, if you can keep them longer, that's more revenue.

I would literally bet my life that gaming will primarily use service based delivery within ten years.  I don't have the knowledge to get all the details correct, but it's happening, and if Nintendo could get ahead of it, that'd be huge for them.

Outside of not being as powerful as PS4/XBO isnt this device kinda what you just explained? It offers a different experience than tablets as well as a different experience from PS4/XBO. And if the point is to offer a different experience than why does it need to recieve ports? That kinda defeats the purpose of differentiating if the end goal is still to have the same games. And as far as we know, the detachable controllers could be a new type of motion controllers.

I don't see how.  The only thing it would offer different than phones/tablet would be physical controls, which can be done easily enough.  In comparison to the PS4/XBox One it wouldn't do anything all that special except portability, but the games themselves wouldn't be distinct.

It doesn't really defeat the purpose, because nobody said they had to only get ports.  Look at the Wii scenario.  If the Wii had the same horsepower as the other two systems, you'd still (potentially) have the unique games that made the Wii a success, PLUS things like Skyrim and GTA.  It's not an either or situation.  You can have differentiated experiences and ports on the same system.

It's highly doubtful that the detachables will be motion controllers.  If the point is to have it work as a handheld, how can that work with motion controls?  But, like I said before, I'll adjust my opinion as new information comes in. 

Im not gonna argue with you about Nintendo's indie support, 3DS+Wii U has solid indie support, its a fact.

What makes those games shovelware? Because you dont like them? Remember they are for kids, you know like 7 year olds, they arent meant for adults.

Nowhere did I say Fire Emblem in HD will in and of itself cause people to go out and buy an NX, you're beginning to use straw man arguments. What im saying is that nobody is going to look at the new Fire Emblem and think its gimped because it doesnt look as good as The Witcher, it will be a huge improvement over previous entries and that is what matters.

Are you going to try claiming that Mario Kart or Smash Bros are gimped on Wii U because its not as powerful as PS4? Probably not, because they are great games with beautiful visuals.

The fact that this site compares Nintendo to Sony/Microsoft is absolutely irrelevent, Nintendo is not trying to compete directly with them and is looking to coexist with them. A random video game site does not change that.

I agree that its possible that the gaming market will change in the next 10 years to allow for a subscription model, but we are talking about a device set to launch in about 7 months, in which case a subscription model for all games is not a viable solution.

Ya, the only thing different from phones/tablets will be physical controls.........and the software......you know the primary reason to own hardware. Same goes for PS/XB, if NX has close to equal suppport as 3DS+Wii U than it will literally have hundreds of games not available anywhere else.

Ya if Wii had the same horsepower as PS3/360 it would have costed $400+ and development times/budgets would be higher and people would still likely have chosen to play those 3rd party games on PS3/360 just like they chose to play multiplats on PS2/XB instead of GC.

Its not impossible to have multiple control schemes, one possible solution is to have touch controls in portable mode and motion controls in console mode for certain games. Or the fact that handheld devices do have motion abilities, 3DS, Wii U gamepad, smartphones, tablets, all have gyroscopes. Just a couple potential ideas.