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How are white people supposed to feel about their own race?

Forums - Politics Discussion - How are white people supposed to feel about their own race?

The thing is sterotypes are furthered by the allocated minority groups especially postive ones.

Being indian we sort are proud of those postive stereotypes or think we are like them.



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Final-Fan said:
Shiken said:
Morgan Freeman said it best. Racism will not stop until we just stop talking about it. Until a Black man can look at a white man and vice versa and just see a man, it will never end. Everyone who is not white wants to play the victim (not literally everyone but you get it), and many whites want to pretend that racism is not a thing.

All races need to just shut up about the subject and see eachother as just men and women. No Black Pride, Asian Pride, Gay Pride, etc will ever get rid of racism. In fact, theh will only fuel it. This thread is a perfect example of that, just look at the title. The more you advertise it, the more people will talk about it. The more you talk about it the more racism will come out.

Everyone needs to just shut up and live as human beings. It really IS that simple. Unfortunately we are beings who over analyze every little thing to find SOMETHING to complain about. That in mind, racism will never end.

Ignoring that type of problem won't make it go away.  The more you talk about racism, the more racists get upset.  If everyone just shut up and treated each other equally, that would indeed solve the problem, but how are we supposed to stamp out injustices that no one is allowed to talk about? 

Why did you generalize nonwhites more than whites in the first paragraph?  Compare:  all whites want to pretend that racism is not a thing (not literally, but you get it), and many non-whites want to play the victim.  You did basically take it back in parentheses, but why say it like that in the first place? 

Bolded - a straight up example of the overanalysing mentioned in Shiken's post. It doesn't help.

It's true that talking about racism will not make racism and racial inequality go away. It's also true that ignoring it won't make it go away. But doing something positive that will unite all groups, will certainly go a long way into making that happen.

Nobody can deny that there has been progress towards complete equality between groups, and nobody can deny that there's still a long way to go. Unfortunately, it will take generations before that goal is achieved, because the horrific way in which various groups have treated other various groups are still within living memory.  And it will never be achieved until all groups realise that history is in fact something that should be learned from, not something that is used to antagonise one another and perpetuate rifts. Until that is realised, there will still always be groups, meaning that people will never be able to work together to stamp out racism and inequality. All they'll do is keep talking about it, accusing one another of it, and racism in all its various guises will continue to flourish.



Hedra42 said:
Final-Fan said:

Why did you generalize nonwhites more than whites in the first paragraph?  Compare:  all whites want to pretend that racism is not a thing (not literally, but you get it), and many non-whites want to play the victim.  You did basically take it back in parentheses, but why say it like that in the first place? 

Bolded - a straight up example of the overanalysing mentioned in Shiken's post. It doesn't help.

It's not an overanalysis. It's an observation of bias. Whether said bias is conscious or unconscious is unclear, but it's there. Why is it there in the first place? Maybe the person in question has concluded that whites are superior based on his own observations, or maybe it's a result of their upbringing and education.

How can racism go away? Or better question, what can the average person do? My answer to that is that everyone can examine themselves. If everyone made an honest effort to lay off their own prejudices, racism would become a lesser issue in society. This shouldn't be looked at on a group level, but rather on an individual basis. If you consider yourself a part of a group and said group's actions do nothing to reduce racism or even fuel it, then you become prone to use the group's actions as justification for your own inaction or racistic behavior. After all, racism is all about putting humans in groups (Team White, Team Black etc.).

Personally, I have racistic tendencies. But that's something I have to work on myself, not have some group do it for me. Shiken's point that Morgan Freeman said it best is terribly flawed. Not talking about a topic doesn't make it go away, it makes it ignored. Willful ignorance is denial. That helps nobody.



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Final-Fan said:
Shiken said:
Morgan Freeman said it best. Racism will not stop until we just stop talking about it. Until a Black man can look at a white man and vice versa and just see a man, it will never end. Everyone who is not white wants to play the victim (not literally everyone but you get it), and many whites want to pretend that racism is not a thing.

All races need to just shut up about the subject and see eachother as just men and women. No Black Pride, Asian Pride, Gay Pride, etc will ever get rid of racism. In fact, theh will only fuel it. This thread is a perfect example of that, just look at the title. The more you advertise it, the more people will talk about it. The more you talk about it the more racism will come out.

Everyone needs to just shut up and live as human beings. It really IS that simple. Unfortunately we are beings who over analyze every little thing to find SOMETHING to complain about. That in mind, racism will never end.

Ignoring that type of problem won't make it go away.  The more you talk about racism, the more racists get upset.  If everyone just shut up and treated each other equally, that would indeed solve the problem, but how are we supposed to stamp out injustices that no one is allowed to talk about? 

Why did you generalize nonwhites more than whites in the first paragraph?  Compare:  all whites want to pretend that racism is not a thing (not literally, but you get it), and many non-whites want to play the victim.  You did basically take it back in parentheses, but why say it like that in the first place? 

Read your post and realize that your way of thinking is part of the problem.  "Why did you generalize nonwhites as part of the problem?"

 

Oh please, anyone can see that it is directed to EVERYONE.  However because I put the parentheses in a sentence between whites and non-whites, I have to be talking about one group. /s

 

BTW reread it.  You have it flip flopped.  If you are going to quote me to try to make a point, at least get the quote right.  Also do not bring out one aspect of my post and ignore the rest.  I never said to simply ignore it.  I said everyone needs to shut up about it and just treat eachother as people instead of people of color.  This will never happen if people are always taking about it, but we are too hard headed as a species to actually pull it off anyway.



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Shiken said:

Read your post and realize that your way of thinking is part of the problem.  "Why did you generalize nonwhites as part of the problem?"

Oh please, anyone can see that it is directed to EVERYONE.  However because I put the parentheses in a sentence between whites and non-whites, I have to be talking about one group. /s

BTW reread it.  You have it flip flopped.  If you are going to quote me to try to make a point, at least get the quote right.  Also do not bring out one aspect of my post and ignore the rest.  I never said to simply ignore it.  I said everyone needs to shut up about it and just treat eachother as people instead of people of color.  This will never happen if people are always taking about it, but we are too hard headed as a species to actually pull it off anyway.

You are white.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

RolStoppable said:
Shiken said:

Read your post and realize that your way of thinking is part of the problem.  "Why did you generalize nonwhites as part of the problem?"

Oh please, anyone can see that it is directed to EVERYONE.  However because I put the parentheses in a sentence between whites and non-whites, I have to be talking about one group. /s

BTW reread it.  You have it flip flopped.  If you are going to quote me to try to make a point, at least get the quote right.  Also do not bring out one aspect of my post and ignore the rest.  I never said to simply ignore it.  I said everyone needs to shut up about it and just treat eachother as people instead of people of color.  This will never happen if people are always taking about it, but we are too hard headed as a species to actually pull it off anyway.

You are white.

My grandfather is black, but we are both men.  That is really all there is to it.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

Hedra42 said:
Final-Fan said:

Ignoring that type of problem won't make it go away.  The more you talk about racism, the more racists get upset.  If everyone just shut up and treated each other equally, that would indeed solve the problem, but how are we supposed to stamp out injustices that no one is allowed to talk about? 

Why did you generalize nonwhites more than whites in the first paragraph?  Compare:  all whites want to pretend that racism is not a thing (not literally, but you get it), and many non-whites want to play the victim.  You did basically take it back in parentheses, but why say it like that in the first place? 

Bolded - a straight up example of the overanalysing mentioned in Shiken's post. It doesn't help.

It's true that talking about racism will not make racism and racial inequality go away. It's also true that ignoring it won't make it go away. But doing something positive that will unite all groups, will certainly go a long way into making that happen.

Nobody can deny that there has been progress towards complete equality between groups, and nobody can deny that there's still a long way to go. Unfortunately, it will take generations before that goal is achieved, because the horrific way in which various groups have treated other various groups are still within living memory.  And it will never be achieved until all groups realise that history is in fact something that should be learned from, not something that is used to antagonise one another and perpetuate rifts. Until that is realised, there will still always be groups, meaning that people will never be able to work together to stamp out racism and inequality. All they'll do is keep talking about it, accusing one another of it, and racism in all its various guises will continue to flourish.

(above is quoted for context)

RolStoppable said:
Hedra42 said:

Bolded - a straight up example of the overanalysing mentioned in Shiken's post. It doesn't help.

It's not an overanalysis. It's an observation of bias. Whether said bias is conscious or unconscious is unclear, but it's there. Why is it there in the first place? Maybe the person in question has concluded that whites are superior based on his own observations, or maybe it's a result of their upbringing and education.

How can racism go away? Or better question, what can the average person do? My answer to that is that everyone can examine themselves. If everyone made an honest effort to lay off their own prejudices, racism would become a lesser issue in society. This shouldn't be looked at on a group level, but rather on an individual basis. If you consider yourself a part of a group and said group's actions do nothing to reduce racism or even fuel it, then you become prone to use the group's actions as justification for your own inaction or racistic behavior. After all, racism is all about putting humans in groups (Team White, Team Black etc.).

Personally, I have racistic tendencies. But that's something I have to work on myself, not have some group do it for me. Shiken's point that Morgan Freeman said it best is terribly flawed. Not talking about a topic doesn't make it go away, it makes it ignored. Willful ignorance is denial. That helps nobody.

Call it what you like, but it is still an example of overanalysis that can ignite and/or perpetuate hatred. See Shiken's response to Final-fan a couple of posts up from this. In fact, your entire first paragraph could be construed as overanalysis. It doesn't help deal with racism, and as Final-fan said, all talk does is upset racists.

Upsetting racists doesn't stop them from being racist. It can easily exacerbate the problem.

I agree with you that the best way to tackle racism is on an individual level, and it would be great if we all did that, and of course, many people do. But it's human nature to feel the need to identify as part of a group, whether it's nationally, culturally, linguistically, religiously or by the colour of skin. It may be a trivial example, but ask yourself which national football team do you support, and why? There's a basic tribal instinct that exists within us all, which as humans, we can't get away from. 

Unfortunately, one by-product of this instinct is that some will, in their minds, put other people in groups and will prejudge them in that context. Look at the thread title as a prime example. Read through this thread and you'll see posts from members here making assumptions of the ethnic background of other members, based on what those members have posted.

Its this basic tribal instinct that has formed the basis for pretty much every war, atrocity, act of racism and intolerance ever. And it's not one that we can  overcome, because it's deep within every one of us, whether we care to admit it or not. But we have learned some lessons from our history, and we are still learning. And we can only succeed in tackling racism by using our history as something from which to take positive action - but willingness needs to come from all sides.  

 

 

 

 

 



Hedra42 said:

(above is quoted for context)

Call it what you like, but it is still an example of overanalysis that can ignite and/or perpetuate hatred. See Shiken's response to Final-fan a couple of posts up from this. In fact, your entire first paragraph could be construed as overanalysis. It doesn't help deal with racism, and as Final-fan said, all talk does is upset racists.

Upsetting racists doesn't stop them from being racist. It can easily exacerbate the problem.

I agree with you that the best way to tackle racism is on an individual level, and it would be great if we all did that, and of course, many people do. But it's human nature to feel the need to identify as part of a group, whether it's nationally, culturally, linguistically, religiously or by the colour of skin. It may be a trivial example, but ask yourself which national football team do you support, and why? There's a basic tribal instinct that exists within us all, which as humans, we can't get away from. 

Unfortunately, one by-product of this instinct is that some will, in their minds, put other people in groups and will prejudge them in that context. Look at the thread title as a prime example. Read through this thread and you'll see posts from members here making assumptions of the ethnic background of other members, based on what those members have posted.

Its this basic tribal instinct that has formed the basis for pretty much every war, atrocity, act of racism and intolerance ever. And it's not one that we can  overcome, because it's deep within every one of us, whether we care to admit it or not. But we have learned some lessons from our history, and we are still learning. And we can only succeed in tackling racism by using our history as something from which to take positive action - but willingness needs to come from all sides.  

Shiken's response to Final-Fan didn't properly address what Final-Fan pointed out.

Asking Austrians which national football team they support doesn't work as an example for the point you were trying to make, but I understand the point.

We actually agree on most things, where we differ is the perception of the Shiken/Final-Fan conversation. For Shiken it's easy to say that people shouldn't talk about racism anymore, because it's not going to be detrimental to white people, the group he identifies with. Also, I don't think that Final-Fan meant that upsetting racists is a bad thing, but that's something he should elaborate on himself, because there's not much of a point if we continue this discussion based on guesswork.



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A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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