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Jigsawx1 on 28 August 2016

So you know that a console is 2x faster than a pc with the same hardware because of optimisation, if you are creating a game for pc you have to look for alot of cpus and graphic cards!
On a Console you can put every power you have to make a game.

 

I think the games will run like this:

XB0 /XBO S:

720p 30/60 fps < medium to high details

900p 30/60 fps < medium to high details

1080p 30/60 fps < medium to high details

scaled to 1080p

XBO Scorpio:

1080p 60 fps < Ultra details

1440p 30/60 fps < high to ultra details

4k 30/60 fps < high to ultra details

scaled to 4k, dynamics resolutions possible.



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JRPGfan on 28 August 2016
Conina said:
exclusive_console said:

Accroding to some leaked Sony presentation there is not much difference between1080P and 1440P and they will use reconstruction for higher pixels. If PS4.5 can do 1080P 60fps on say high and Xbone2 does the same with 1440P it won't make much difference then. May be they will have couple of settings to ultra instead at 1080P. But if the difference is 100$ Xbone2 will still loose IMO. It is all guessing ATM.

That is funny... in every resolution/fps-discussion over the last 3 years you were always on the resolution side and differences like 900p on XBO vs 1080p on PS4 were a big deal.

But suddenly 1080p or 1440p "won't make much difference" because Sony allegedly said so? Even on big 1080p TVs you will probably see the difference (downsampling from 1440p to 1080p instead of shitty FXAA), on big 4k TVs the difference should be huge.

Deminishing returns.

The higher the resolution goes, the smaller the improvement in visual quality, from said increases.

At lower resolutions, even small differnces can be pretty darn huge (720p vs 1080p).

At higher ones say 1440p vs 1880p, the differnce isnt nearly as noticeable.



Jigsawx1 on 28 August 2016
JRPGfan said:
Conina said:

That is funny... in every resolution/fps-discussion over the last 3 years you were always on the resolution side and differences like 900p on XBO vs 1080p on PS4 were a big deal.

But suddenly 1080p or 1440p "won't make much difference" because Sony allegedly said so? Even on big 1080p TVs you will probably see the difference (downsampling from 1440p to 1080p instead of shitty FXAA), on big 4k TVs the difference should be huge.

Deminishing returns.

The higher the resolution goes, the smaller the improvement in visual quality, from said increases.

At lower resolutions, even small differnces can be pretty darn huge (720p vs 1080p).

At higher ones say 1440p vs 1880p, the differnce isnt nearly as noticeable.

But some more details on a higher resolution for example  1440p scaled to 4k you will see and feel because of 60 fps.

 

For Example:

The Witcher 3 on XOne runs in 900p+ dynamic (scaled to 1080p), 30 fps with a mix of medium and high details.

On the scorpio i think it would run on 4k 30 fps and a mix of high to Ultra

or 1440p (scaled to 4k), 60 fps Ultra details ( which i would prefer)  ;)

and on Neo 1440p (scaled to 4k), 30 fps ultra details



exclusive_console on 28 August 2016
Conina said:
exclusive_console said:

Accroding to some leaked Sony presentation there is not much difference between1080P and 1440P and they will use reconstruction for higher pixels. If PS4.5 can do 1080P 60fps on say high and Xbone2 does the same with 1440P it won't make much difference then. May be they will have couple of settings to ultra instead at 1080P. But if the difference is 100$ Xbone2 will still loose IMO. It is all guessing ATM.

That is funny... in every resolution/fps-discussion over the last 3 years you were always on the resolution side and differences like 900p on XBO vs 1080p on PS4 were a big deal.

But suddenly 1080p or 1440p "won't make much difference" because Sony allegedly said so? Even on big 1080p TVs you will probably see the difference (downsampling from 1440p to 1080p instead of shitty FXAA), on big 4k TVs the difference should be huge.

 

That was the presentation meant for devs who will be developing for PS4.5 aka Neo. For me 1080P is ideal and I do not see myself in getting 4K TV anyime soon. The way I see it price will be the factor between Xbone2 and PS4 Neo. If the difference is 50$ then may be it is not too bad to pay for more pixels But if Sony can undercut it by 100$ then PS4Neo is going to kill it. Because PS4 neo will be capable of doing 1080P with 60fps. Xbone has got so much hate because of 720P, 900P and dynamic res. People have moved to full HD now.

Microsoft is in a tricky position how they will sell a high end console. I am not sure they can pull by a PS4 by selling a console which is 40% more power and still cost same. I expect Xbone2 to be a chunky console. They will do well to integrate the power supply inside it.



 

setsunatenshi on 28 August 2016
JRPGfan said:
Screamapillar said:
It won't be priced higher than $499, because any price above that is out of the range of mass market appeal, and therefore it won't sell in high enough volume for software sales to be profitable, so therefore the market for the system would never materialize and it would be discontinued. Microsoft may not make a profit on it at $499, and they may even take a slight loss, but they'll make it as powerful as they can, while being able to sell it at $499 or less and still be able to turn Scorpio into a successful platform business.

^Seriously doubt they keep the scorpio under 500$.

Its gonna launch at over 499$ and be a high end product. People that think thats too expensive, can get a XB1 slim, thats probably how MS see's it.

 

If Sony aims for 4.2 Teraflops and 399$, and MS is aiming for near 8 teraflops (almost twice as much), it ll be more than 100$ more expensive.

Basically less than 500$ for a scorpio is wishfull thinking / dreaming.

I wouldnt be surprised if it launched at 599$.

At e3 it was 6TFlops, now it's near 8... come next year will be what? Approaching 24TFlops? It's a magical console whose performance keeps growing the more people talk about it lol 



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JRPGfan on 28 August 2016
setsunatenshi said:
JRPGfan said:

^Seriously doubt they keep the scorpio under 500$.

Its gonna launch at over 499$ and be a high end product. People that think thats too expensive, can get a XB1 slim, thats probably how MS see's it.

 

If Sony aims for 4.2 Teraflops and 399$, and MS is aiming for near 8 teraflops (almost twice as much), it ll be more than 100$ more expensive.

Basically less than 500$ for a scorpio is wishfull thinking / dreaming.

I wouldnt be surprised if it launched at 599$.

At e3 it was 6TFlops, now it's near 8... come next year will be what? Approaching 24TFlops? It's a magical console whose performance keeps growing the more people talk about it lol 

Because there where rumors of the PS4 being able to get a clock boost to get it closer to 5 teraflops.

People said the same will happend with the scorpio, Crapgamer & Nxtgen720 are saying scorpio is 6-8 teraflops.



setsunatenshi on 28 August 2016
JRPGfan said:
setsunatenshi said:

At e3 it was 6TFlops, now it's near 8... come next year will be what? Approaching 24TFlops? It's a magical console whose performance keeps growing the more people talk about it lol 

Because there where rumors of the PS4 being able to get a clock boost to get it closer to 5 teraflops.

People said the same will happend with the scorpio, Crapgamer & Nxtgen720 are saying scorpio is 6-8 teraflops.

so now we're taking nxtgen720 speculation as anything to go on by? i heard a lot about secret sauce, cloud and a secret gpu at the start of the generation as well :)



Jigsawx1 on 28 August 2016
setsunatenshi said:
JRPGfan said:

Because there where rumors of the PS4 being able to get a clock boost to get it closer to 5 teraflops.

People said the same will happend with the scorpio, Crapgamer & Nxtgen720 are saying scorpio is 6-8 teraflops.

so now we're taking nxtgen720 speculation as anything to go on by? i heard a lot about secret sauce, cloud and a secret gpu at the start of the generation as well :)

yeah and you can see it in every game, its better and better. Look ou for cloud computing in halo 5 warzone up to 200 ai controlled enemys at the same time.

 

Xbox One Scorpio will be at 6,5 Teraflops and PS 4.5 by 4,2 Teraflops at the end.



setsunatenshi on 28 August 2016
Jigsawx1 said:
setsunatenshi said:

so now we're taking nxtgen720 speculation as anything to go on by? i heard a lot about secret sauce, cloud and a secret gpu at the start of the generation as well :)

yeah and you can see it in every game, its better and better. Look ou for cloud computing in halo 5 warzone up to 200 ai controlled enemys at the same time.

 

Xbox One Scorpio will be at 6,5 Teraflops and PS 4.5 by 4,2 Teraflops at the end.

not... sure... if serious o.0



Pemalite on 28 August 2016
exclusive_console said:

 

Accroding to some leaked Sony presentation there is not much difference between1080P and 1440P and they will use reconstruction for higher pixels. If PS4.5 can do 1080P 60fps on say high and Xbone2 does the same with 1440P it won't make much difference then. May be they will have couple of settings to ultra instead at 1080P. But if the difference is 100$ Xbone2 will still loose IMO. It is all guessing ATM.

Titan X 11tflops gfx cards can do 4K at 60fps on current games which obviously means Sony should stay away from 4K res. I agree with you that Xbone2 will not be able to do 4K either It will be medium settings at best with variable frames

Not much of a difference between 1080P and 1440P? I beg to differ.
I run 1440P on my PC and have done so for years.

1440P = 2560x1440 = 3,686,400 pixels.
1080P = 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels.

That is almost a 78% increase in the number of pixels. Not much of a difference? Have you gamed on a 1440P panel before?

Also. Using "flops" as some kind of measurement for possible 4k gaming is silly.
Also, you can't ignore the possibility of 1800P either which the Xbox One Scorpio should be capable of.

1800P = 3200x1800 = 5,760,000 pixels or a 177% increase from 1080P and a 56% increase from 1440P.

As for price... I simply don't care about it, if I am happy dropping a few grand on a PC... I am happy paying a few hundred extra for a console if it has tangible benefits.

Jigsawx1 said:

So you know that a console is 2x faster than a pc with the same hardware because of optimisation, if you are creating a game for pc you have to look for alot of cpus and graphic cards!
On a Console you can put every power you have to make a game.

Can you show me a multiplat PS4 game that looks twice as good as the PC version running on a Radeon 7850?
Direct X 12 and Vulkan kinda' erodes into that "Console optimization". -  You should see how things stack up in a modern game. ;)

JRPGfan said:

Deminishing returns.

The higher the resolution goes, the smaller the improvement in visual quality, from said increases.

At lower resolutions, even small differnces can be pretty darn huge (720p vs 1080p).

At higher ones say 1440p vs 1880p, the differnce isnt nearly as noticeable.

Wrong.




When it comes to rendering the game, you can see substantual improvements with higher resolutions and then even downscaling them... In-fact that's how some of the best Anti-Aliasing methods actually work. ;)

Increased resolution allows for less aliasing of textures and geometry and other assets, it allows for smaller details to be more visible.
I'm sorry if you have only ever experience 1080P and below gaming, there is a real appreciation with higher resolution displays and gaming that shouldn't be understated.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--