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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Help me create a Taxonomy for Videogames!

LGF on 10 August 2016
DonFerrari said:
LGF said:

I agree, there isn't a story in the traditional sense, but who said a story was mandatory in a Role Playing Game? Role Play is a concept that goes beyond the gaming industry. It's used for instance in job interviews and job training. It involves assuming the role of a particular entity. So, why can't it be the manager of a football team? I know RPG has a rather specific meaning in the gaming community. But why not broaden our perspective?

About racing games, if you like simulators, you should be happy with Project CARS, Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally. They have brought true simulation to consoles.

The idea of role playing game is to tell a history, not only to play a role. Because on the playing role part we already were doing that as children when we played pirates, medics, etc... rpg began on lord of the rings and fantasy... but telling a story is the core of it.

I have Project Cars (it isn't that good of a game)... Assetto Corsa I didn't see it yet for console, and neither did Dirt Rally got close from my memory of Sega Rally. I miss the good times of GT2 rally racing.

If playing as pirates or medics involves rules and structured decisions, I don't see why can't it be RPG. :P

Are you kidding? Project CARS is probably the best simulation racing game of all time! It's highly customizable (from gameplay, to camera view, to number of laps and racing strategy), has a lot of circuits and racing disciplines, good graphics, dynamic weather, etc.

Maybe what you really like isn't simulation racing games, but more arcade-oriented games. Sega Rally and Gran Turismo are of the latter type. But then, you also have a lot of options: Forza, Grid, GT, F1, etc.



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Distant Star on 10 August 2016
LGF said:
Distant Star said:


Splitscreen is indeed a sub sub category. Online-Co-op is one I should have added.

Multiplayer>Competative>Online Multiplayer>Splitscreen
Multiplayer>Competative>Local Multiplayer>Splitscreen

Multiplayer>Co-op>Online Co-op>Splitscreen
Multiplayer>Co-op>Local Co-op>Splitscreen

Aestetics is a bad one because many games go for an realistic artstyle, however it's not tagged by gamers or devs as such. I checked on steam and abstract are games like Kairo and Anti-Chamber. Maybe another way to describe absract is to say minimalistic?

I got Aestetics from these 3 dimesions: Game Mechanics, Game Dynamics and Game Aestetics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDA_framework

I just went with aestetics = artstyle, but it's actually someting totally different.

I'm not sure what comes first, competitive vs. co-op or local vs. online.

Ok, so Aestetics is probably not the best term as it's so broad. Maybe graphical style?

Minimalistic seems like a good word to describe Abstract games. But wouldn't it be part of cartoon?

Based on what you said, I've come up with 3 additional dimensions for Group E (context). One that I had also thought about was the Dialog (either in text or audio). Here are the new dimensions:

However, when I look at them, they don't seem as relevant to game design as the others. And like you said, most games will fall in one of the categories (realistic, city, present).

competitive vs. co-op or local vs. online

local multiplayer and online multiplayer should better describe 'competative'. Those are still too generic.

Online Multiplayer>Online co-op
Online Multiplayer>Online competative

Local Multiplayer>Local Co-op
Local Multiplayer>Local Competative


Minimalistic and abstract are mostly the same. 

Cartoon not same as minimalistic/abstract
If you want to play a cartoon style game and I give you Thomas was Alone would you be happy with that recommandation?

Cartoon and anime are not the same
If you want to play a anime style game and I give you The Walking Dead (teltale) would you be happy with that recommandation?

Dialog -  Text/Audio
You could say subtitles only/subtitles + audio, but those are higher dimensions. 

'Choices Matter' or 'decissions' could be a sub category of both text and audio.

Space theme is the worst also way too complicated to apply.

Time set is somewhat ok, it becomes more useful when there is more then past present future.

GTA Vice City - Time Set: 1970
Far Cry Primal - Time Set: Prehistoric

Problem is it starts to look like theme. that's why I choose universe/theme, just to simplfy things.




LGF on 10 August 2016
Distant Star said:
LGF said:

How would you classify Tomb Raider then? Crime? Is it a crime to kill bears and dinasaurs? :P

I agree that these terms can mean many things, specially "action". But if we define them properly, it may work.

I would classify Tomb Raider as (ancient) Mythology as a theme/universe. However time set is present day and that makes it a little confusing.
Uncharted would also be classified as (ancient) Mythology.

This classification for these two games sounds weird. Very weird!

I would define adventure as a series of events that happen in a context far from our normal daily lives, but which don't involve much interaction with other people (otherwise, it would be crime/war/horror). Tomb Raider, Uncharted and Crash Bandicoot all seem to fit in this definition, and I think they really share the same theme. Of course the latter is fictional, while the first two are more realistic, but that's another dimension.



LGF on 10 August 2016
Distant Star said:

competitive vs. co-op or local vs. online

local multiplayer and online multiplayer should better describe 'competative'. Those are still too generic.

Online Multiplayer>Online co-op
Online Multiplayer>Online competative

Local Multiplayer>Local Co-op
Local Multiplayer>Local Competative

Agreed.

Minimalistic and abstract are mostly the same. 

Cartoon not same as minimalistic/abstract
If you want to play a cartoon style game and I give you Thomas was Alone would you be happy with that recommandation?

Cartoon and anime are not the same
If you want to play a anime style game and I give you The Walking Dead (teltale) would you be happy with that recommandation?

Ok, with that you got it. Abstract is different from cartoon.

But anime I believe is a subcategory of cartoon. Anime has some particular characteristics, but it fits in the cartoon definition.

Dialog -  Text/Audio

You could say subtitles only/subtitles + audio, but those are higher dimensions. 

'Choices Matter' or 'decissions' could be a sub category of both text and audio.

But the question is: is this really that relevant? Isn't it a detail whether a game has subtitles or not?

I guess the question of decisions would be covered by Dimension 2 (Input time/space), as discrete input, and Dimension 7 (Behaviour), as more or less scripted.

Space theme is the worst also way too complicated to apply.

Time set is somewhat ok, it becomes more useful when there is more then past present future.

GTA Vice City - Time Set: 1970
Far Cry Primal - Time Set: Prehistoric

Problem is it starts to look like theme. that's why I choose universe/theme, just to simplfy things.

That's my opinion too. Universe/theme should be enough.

Thanks for your inputs!



Distant Star on 10 August 2016

From Steam Rise of the TombRaider
Featuring epic, high-octane action moments set in the most beautiful hostile environments on earth, Rise of the Tomb Raider delivers a cinematic survival action adventure where you will join Lara Croft on her first tomb raiding expedition as she seeks to discover the secret of immortality.

secret of immortality hints at ancient mythology in the summary.



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DonFerrari on 10 August 2016
LGF said:
DonFerrari said:

The idea of role playing game is to tell a history, not only to play a role. Because on the playing role part we already were doing that as children when we played pirates, medics, etc... rpg began on lord of the rings and fantasy... but telling a story is the core of it.

I have Project Cars (it isn't that good of a game)... Assetto Corsa I didn't see it yet for console, and neither did Dirt Rally got close from my memory of Sega Rally. I miss the good times of GT2 rally racing.

If playing as pirates or medics involves rules and structured decisions, I don't see why can't it be RPG. :P

Are you kidding? Project CARS is probably the best simulation racing game of all time! It's highly customizable (from gameplay, to camera view, to number of laps and racing strategy), has a lot of circuits and racing disciplines, good graphics, dynamic weather, etc.

Maybe what you really like isn't simulation racing games, but more arcade-oriented games. Sega Rally and Gran Turismo are of the latter type. But then, you also have a lot of options: Forza, Grid, GT, F1, etc.

Man, you are totally crazy if you call Project Cars the best simulator of all time and them call Gran Turismo an arcade game.

Handling in Project Cars is very bad and no life like, on that aspect my feeling on it was closer to Driveclub than to Gran Turismo. Besides being completely easy to beat.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LGF on 10 August 2016
Distant Star said:

From Steam Rise of the TombRaider
Featuring epic, high-octane action moments set in the most beautiful hostile environments on earth, Rise of the Tomb Raider delivers a cinematic survival action adventure where you will join Lara Croft on her first tomb raiding expedition as she seeks to discover the secret of immortality.

secret of immortality hints at ancient mythology in the summary.

A little bit far-fetched. ;)



LGF on 10 August 2016
DonFerrari said:
LGF said:

If playing as pirates or medics involves rules and structured decisions, I don't see why can't it be RPG. :P

Are you kidding? Project CARS is probably the best simulation racing game of all time! It's highly customizable (from gameplay, to camera view, to number of laps and racing strategy), has a lot of circuits and racing disciplines, good graphics, dynamic weather, etc.

Maybe what you really like isn't simulation racing games, but more arcade-oriented games. Sega Rally and Gran Turismo are of the latter type. But then, you also have a lot of options: Forza, Grid, GT, F1, etc.

Man, you are totally crazy if you call Project Cars the best simulator of all time and them call Gran Turismo an arcade game.

Handling in Project Cars is very bad and no life like, on that aspect my feeling on it was closer to Driveclub than to Gran Turismo. Besides being completely easy to beat.

This is an old discussion of whether GT is a simulator. The gaming community seems to agree with the classification "simcade". You can find plenty of arguments all over the internet. I just leave you a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/3ow2k3/how_much_of_a_sim_is_gran_turismo/

Just for comparison, I leave you a link of the same site for you to see what's said on PCARS: https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/2adbov/is_project_cars_going_to_be_classed_as_a_sim_or/

On top of what's said on the final product of both games, I would say that the motivation is different:

  • PCARS seeks to give you an experience as close as possible to real-life;
  • GT seeks to give you a driving experience that feels good.
Then there are a lot of facts (besides handling) that prove you this distinct philosophy. GT has limited damage, unrealistic sound, fictional tracks (the first real tracks started only in GT3), fictional championships, fictional money, and so on.


DonFerrari on 10 August 2016
LGF said:
DonFerrari said:

Man, you are totally crazy if you call Project Cars the best simulator of all time and them call Gran Turismo an arcade game.

Handling in Project Cars is very bad and no life like, on that aspect my feeling on it was closer to Driveclub than to Gran Turismo. Besides being completely easy to beat.

This is an old discussion of whether GT is a simulator. The gaming community seems to agree with the classification "simcade". You can find plenty of arguments all over the internet. I just leave you a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/3ow2k3/how_much_of_a_sim_is_gran_turismo/

Just for comparison, I leave you a link of the same site for you to see what's said on PCARS: https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/2adbov/is_project_cars_going_to_be_classed_as_a_sim_or/

On top of what's said on the final product of both games, I would say that the motivation is different:

  • PCARS seeks to give you an experience as close as possible to real-life;
  • GT seeks to give you a driving experience that feels good.
Then there are a lot of facts (besides handling) that prove you this distinct philosophy. GT has limited damage, unrealistic sound, fictional tracks (the first real tracks started only in GT3), fictional championships, fictional money, and so on.

My only concern on simulation is the driving simulation, not the sound, damage (a pro shouldn't even be bumping the car), tracks was a license issue, all money in game is fictional, etc.

GT have the Nissan driving program, F1 drivers using to train, Kazunori (the creator) without any previous track experience winning a championship in nurburgring only by his experience in lapping it in GT (he is trully passionate about his creation). And from a handling perspective I felt it much closer to reality than project cars, even more when driving cars I used in real life.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LGF on 11 August 2016
DonFerrari said:
LGF said:

This is an old discussion of whether GT is a simulator. The gaming community seems to agree with the classification "simcade". You can find plenty of arguments all over the internet. I just leave you a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/3ow2k3/how_much_of_a_sim_is_gran_turismo/

Just for comparison, I leave you a link of the same site for you to see what's said on PCARS: https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/2adbov/is_project_cars_going_to_be_classed_as_a_sim_or/

On top of what's said on the final product of both games, I would say that the motivation is different:

  • PCARS seeks to give you an experience as close as possible to real-life;
  • GT seeks to give you a driving experience that feels good.
Then there are a lot of facts (besides handling) that prove you this distinct philosophy. GT has limited damage, unrealistic sound, fictional tracks (the first real tracks started only in GT3), fictional championships, fictional money, and so on.

My only concern on simulation is the driving simulation, not the sound, damage (a pro shouldn't even be bumping the car), tracks was a license issue, all money in game is fictional, etc.

GT have the Nissan driving program, F1 drivers using to train, Kazunori (the creator) without any previous track experience winning a championship in nurburgring only by his experience in lapping it in GT (he is trully passionate about his creation). And from a handling perspective I felt it much closer to reality than project cars, even more when driving cars I used in real life.

Again, handling in GT is classified as "simcade". I'm not going to discuss that with you because there are people more knowledgeable than me who have already given their perspective.

About the other (more objective) points:

  • damage is important, because professional drivers do have crashes;
  • TOCA games sold much less than GT (hence, less money to invest) and had 50-80 real licensed tracks, so no excuses for GT;
  • money is fictional in all games that have money; TOCA, PCARS and most PC simulators do not have money; career mode is scheduled-based and you progress by being hired by racing teams.

Finally, just for fun, here's a video comparison between GT5 and Grid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvAb2Vg949k

Enjoy!

PS: I'm not a GT hater. I played it a lot in the PS2 era. I'm just frustrated about many of its features. But I know it still has its place.