By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Video of Unarmed Black Man Lying on the Ground With His Hands Up and Shot By The Police

I wonder if the police officer was taking aim at the patient and not the caretaker considering in the video, the caretaker's leg is very close to the patient. Whatever the case, I seriously hope a lawsuit is pursued.



Around the Network
Hiku said:

So let me get this straight. The cop claims he was trying to shoot the autistic boy with the toy truck. Missed, hit the person he claims he believed was in danger, and then they proceeded to handcuff him? What the actual f**?

It is standard procedure for the police to handcuff/subdue everyone involved in an incident where anyone is at risk.  This includes victims in a crime. This is done so that everyone can be held long enough to get a statement of what has occurred and for the officers and assailants protection. There is no way an officer can know if/and or when a victim in a crime may lash out at their assailant causing injury or other harm. Nor can they know whether or not the victim may try to flee the area due to heightened emotions or a misunderstanding causing them to believe they are in trouble themselves.

After the situation is sorted the person and/or it is determined that there is no longer a danger of flight, or retaliation the victims handcuffs will be removed.



DonFerrari said:
CosmicSex said:

Um... the man was shot and he wasn't armed or threating.  Its not okay for a police officer to shoot you.  The man was a therapist/caretaker and he is patient was autistic and sitting on the ground.  Whats worse is that the cop is saying that he meant to shoot the autistic boy but missed... which is all sorts of fucked up.  Namely because why would you shoot someone sitting on the ground and two, why would you miss him and instead hit someone laying on the ground next to him? 

What trun of events or investigation is going to make this okay?

Maybe because only after full investigation we'll know what happened and not only a short version of it? But if you preffer to be judge and condemn without due process it's on you.

Do you really need a juge or investigation to tell you that unarmed people laying on the ground should not be shot at?

I don't know who you are, but if you, Don, are laying on the ground, and a cop shoots you, thats not okay with me no matter what.  No charges were filed against either individual.  I know you want they to be seen as thugs for being black lol /jk... unless thats how you feel then screw you lol.  But seriously cops are not public executioners.  They are public servants and that means protecting people like that kid who have autism and his caretaker. 

Basically, I am saying that of course we want in investigation, but we need to at least be able to reconize that unarmed people sitting/laying on the ground should not be shot at by cops.  The first thing that pops into my head is what would have happened to that autistic boy if his caretaker wasn't there? I think the caretaker was very brave doing what he did (actually taking a bullet for his patient).  Obviously the cop didn't have the proper training.  If you don't feel at least a little sick when the cop said he was aiming for the autistic boy... check you pulse, you may be dead.



DonFerrari said:
Ganoncrotch said:

Was kinda sad that the exclusive video of the news of this... already had a band of guys and gals outside the station with pitchforks wanting him thrown in jail... like at the same time the news was breaking of what happened, they already had the pitchforks ready... had they even seen the footage or know what happened in the slightest or just get parts of the news second hand from people on the streets and demand Justice? What's going on in that scene exactly?

Because people are ready to hate the police.

Hiku said:

So it turns out that this is even worse than I thought.

"A Florida cop who wounded an unarmed black therapist was actually trying to shoot the man’s patient, a union official said Thursday.
The unidentified North Miami police officer thought Charles Kinsey — who was lying on his back with his arms in the air — was in danger, his union chief said. The patient, who escaped from MACtown Inc., a nearby group home where Kinsey works, had a toy in his hand
."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-shot-unarmed-man-hands-face-charges-article-1.2720369

So let me get this straight. The cop claims he was trying to shoot the autistic boy with the toy truck. Missed, hit the person he claims he believed was in danger, and then they proceeded to handcuff him? What the actual f**?

So he thought the therapist was being held at gun point and shoot at the suspect (the patient).... a lot different than shooting someone lying in the ground with the arms up, right?

Wil everytime a new part of this story get released we see a whole different scenario will show and you would still be quick to judge everytime?

The therapist said he was shouting at the cops not to shoot because he didn't have a gun.  You have already passed judgement on the man by ignoring what he said and siding with the man shooting unarmed people.  You had made up your mind that the cop was without fault before you even with the details.  They you tell us that we can't even actknowledged that cop is at fault, even though HE SHOT THE MAN!  Whose fault was it.  Lets try something basic.  Whose fault was it that the man was shot?  Can you acknowledge that the autistic boy didn't have a gun... this means in fact, in reality, that the cop was still wrong. 



the therapist said he has a toy truck in his hands.

the cop didnt hear that? wth



CPU: Ryzen 7950X
GPU: MSI 4090 SUPRIM X 24G
Motherboard: MSI MEG X670E GODLIKE
RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 32GB DDR5
SSD: Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB
Gaming Console: PLAYSTATION 5
Around the Network

As always, when it comes to threads like this, I mention I was a cop for almost a decade. My expert opinion? The cop fucked up. I can usually defend an officer's actions but not this time.

 

Even the "I thought he was being held hostage" defense. We have training targets with hostage/offenders on them. In training, it was used to illustrate that, even with an AR-15, none of us were capable of taking an accurate shot that would neutralize the bad guy and save the hostage. I actually shot the hostage in the shoulder. That's just something the average officer isn't encouraged to do. 



d21lewis said:

As always, when it comes to threads like this, I mention I was a cop for almost a decade. My expert opinion? The cop fucked up. I can usually defend an officer's actions but not this time.

 

Even the "I thought he was being held hostage" defense. We have training targets with hostage/offenders on them. In training, it was used to illustrate that, even with an AR-15, none of us were capable of taking an accurate shot that would neutralize the bad guy and save the hostage. I actually shot the hostage in the shoulder. That's just something the average officer isn't encouraged to do. 

From your experience as a cop, do you think it's fear that's getting to these cops? You must have some cop friends still. I wonder how they feel about these incidents. 



CosmicSex said:
DonFerrari said:

Maybe because only after full investigation we'll know what happened and not only a short version of it? But if you preffer to be judge and condemn without due process it's on you.

Do you really need a juge or investigation to tell you that unarmed people laying on the ground should not be shot at?

I don't know who you are, but if you, Don, are laying on the ground, and a cop shoots you, thats not okay with me no matter what.  No charges were filed against either individual.  I know you want they to be seen as thugs for being black lol /jk... unless thats how you feel then screw you lol.  But seriously cops are not public executioners.  They are public servants and that means protecting people like that kid who have autism and his caretaker. 

Basically, I am saying that of course we want in investigation, but we need to at least be able to reconize that unarmed people sitting/laying on the ground should not be shot at by cops.  The first thing that pops into my head is what would have happened to that autistic boy if his caretaker wasn't there? I think the caretaker was very brave doing what he did (actually taking a bullet for his patient).  Obviously the cop didn't have the proper training.  If you don't feel at least a little sick when the cop said he was aiming for the autistic boy... check you pulse, you may be dead.

Yes I need investigation before forming opinion, I do believe in "inocent until proven contrary".

Yes officers aren't executioners, but they also aren't villain. So before considering then guilty or saying "it wasn't anything" I preffer to wait. And just so you see, there were an update on the case and the victm wasn't laying. So there may be a lot more information we don't know that can make it more towards an acceptable mistake (that needs retrain and sanctions) or imprudence or crime (and acting accordingly).

If the authistic boy would be presenting risk to others or himself it would be the duty of the officer to protect all (even if it means shooting someone). Authistic and psycopats are both mentally ill in some manner (I'm not comparing their diseases or intentions) so being ill shouldn't prevent an officer to act as needed.

Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

So he thought the therapist was being held at gun point and shoot at the suspect (the patient).... a lot different than shooting someone lying in the ground with the arms up, right?

Wil everytime a new part of this story get released we see a whole different scenario will show and you would still be quick to judge everytime?

I haven't changed my view on this. It still screams reckless incompetence, whether you believe the cop's explanation or not. It's just looking worse. They handcuffed and then ignored the supposed rescuee's pleas for help and let him bleed on the sidewalk until the ambulance finally arrived around 30 mins later.  Is that how you're supposed to treat the person you were supposedly trying to save, and accidentally shot? I'd expect some form of help, i.e. something to press down on the wound that they unnecessarily and recklessly caused.
Surely they would have realized that the kid was holding a toy truck a lot sooner than that.

What makes this sound worse is that the cop supposedly almost hit an autistic patient. And instead hit the man he supposedly was trying to protect, who was lying still on the ground. If we also add in the fact that the therapist was shouting that he is holding a toy truck, the level of incopmpetence gets even more scary. I currently can't see any plausible scenario where that man should have been hit by a bullet and it's excusable.

Also, I'm not hating on police. I'm saying that just like in any other profession, there are incompetent people. But when you're allowed to handle a gun, incompetence can become deadly. And it sounds like the police need better training and recruitment standards.

You were already answered on the why the person was handcuffed (he could for example try to get vengeance due to heightned emotions), so while it isn't pleasant to handcuff an innocent person that is bleading because of a mistake you done, if that is the protocol you need to follow it.

How was the therapist protecting his patient while laying in the ground? I would wait more time before given certanty on facts that are already changing.

Anyone should or can handle a gun, that is a right unless you believe in the bullshit that guns are the cause of death and not criminals using gun (but who also use anything and everything they can get their hands on... and guess what, even if not allowed they still find guns to use).

Hiku said:
Raistline said:

It is standard procedure for the police to handcuff/subdue everyone involved in an incident where anyone is at risk.  This includes victims in a crime. This is done so that everyone can be held long enough to get a statement of what has occurred and for the officers and assailants protection. There is no way an officer can know if/and or when a victim in a crime may lash out at their assailant causing injury or other harm. Nor can they know whether or not the victim may try to flee the area due to heightened emotions or a misunderstanding causing them to believe they are in trouble themselves.

After the situation is sorted the person and/or it is determined that there is no longer a danger of flight, or retaliation the victims handcuffs will be removed.

Be that as it may, you'd think they would quickly realize that it wasn't a threatening situation and that handcuffs won't be neccesary when they see that the other person is holding a toy truck, and no one is armed. Especially when they accidentally shot the person they claimed they were trying to protect. At the very least they could arrange for something to press down on the wound, instead of ignoring his pleas for help until the ambulance arrived 30 mins later. That just doesn't sound right to me.

When you are in the same situation then you can say it's fast to realize. If the therapist was having problems to bring the boy back it was possible that the patient was disturbed, violent or any other situation that wouldn't be safe to just release.

CosmicSex said:
DonFerrari said:

Because people are ready to hate the police.

So he thought the therapist was being held at gun point and shoot at the suspect (the patient).... a lot different than shooting someone lying in the ground with the arms up, right?

Wil everytime a new part of this story get released we see a whole different scenario will show and you would still be quick to judge everytime?

The therapist said he was shouting at the cops not to shoot because he didn't have a gun.  You have already passed judgement on the man by ignoring what he said and siding with the man shooting unarmed people.  You had made up your mind that the cop was without fault before you even with the details.  They you tell us that we can't even actknowledged that cop is at fault, even though HE SHOT THE MAN!  Whose fault was it.  Lets try something basic.  Whose fault was it that the man was shot?  Can you acknowledge that the autistic boy didn't have a gun... this means in fact, in reality, that the cop was still wrong. 

I didn't side with anyone, I said I want to see more before deciding. So hold your judging horse to yourself.

The therapist can say anything (and most people when guilty will claim they are innocent and everything was a mistake of the other) so words hold very little value. Most criminals would claim they are unnarmed to them use a chance to shoot.

I made my mind? From where did you took it? Can only be from your own made up mind.

d21lewis said:

As always, when it comes to threads like this, I mention I was a cop for almost a decade. My expert opinion? The cop fucked up. I can usually defend an officer's actions but not this time.

 

Even the "I thought he was being held hostage" defense. We have training targets with hostage/offenders on them. In training, it was used to illustrate that, even with an AR-15, none of us were capable of taking an accurate shot that would neutralize the bad guy and save the hostage. I actually shot the hostage in the shoulder. That's just something the average officer isn't encouraged to do. 

Quite possibly a fuck up, waiting to see more thrustworthy information on the subject. And certainly if the supposed victm and abductor were close by that would be a risk shoot... but I would suppose that depending on the sittuation you would risk harming victm and suspect to prevent a bigger harm to any or both.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

It's hard for people to imagine but police do make mistakes. They are human, and sometimes they are afraid.

In training, we qualified by making a certain number of accurate shots in seconds. Basically, almost any time you drew your weapon, you were shooting. After I graduated from the academy, I had to consciously tell myself, "DO NOT SHOOT" because it was almost a reflex at that point. Draw your weapon, shoot, observe. And, of course, after you're doing shooting, continue to yell "Put down your weak! Stop resisting!" Why? Because people will remember that if they're ever called to be a witness.

That was before everything was recorded, of course.

One thing I have to say, I'm black. I was a full time deputy and a part time police officer. In certain areas of my county, I knew certain people would be more combative or would argue. Certain people would be more compliant and submissive. There were times (most of the time, actually) where everyone was cooperative but thinking back, I always knew where I had to be more serious and focussed.

I've debated this online but black people have a serious image problem. We always have to be the coolest, the hardest, the realest, or whatever. It's taught to us at an early age. Only on black radio stations do we hear that it's okay to fight the police, kill our brothers, or sell drugs. But "It's our story and it needs to be told!" Bullshit. That's not MY story but it dominates the airwaves.

So, when other races look at us and are afraid because of our image, who is to blame? Them for being afraid or us for acting scary? It's an endless cycle of irresponsibility and people are dying as a result.

Good people are getting lumped in with the bad. Bad people are treated like heroes and martyrs. The problem is getting worse and worse.



d21lewis said:

It's hard for people to imagine but police do make mistakes. They are human, and sometimes they are afraid.

In training, we qualified by making a certain number of accurate shots in seconds. Basically, almost any time you drew your weapon, you were shooting. After I graduated from the academy, I had to consciously tell myself, "DO NOT SHOOT" because it was almost a reflex at that point. Draw your weapon, shoot, observe. And, of course, after you're doing shooting, continue to yell "Put down your weak! Stop resisting!" Why? Because people will remember that if they're ever called to be a witness.

That was before everything was recorded, of course.

One thing I have to say, I'm black. I was a full time deputy and a part time police officer. In certain areas of my county, I knew certain people would be more combative or would argue. Certain people would be more compliant and submissive. There were times (most of the time, actually) where everyone was cooperative but thinking back, I always knew where I had to be more serious and focussed.

I've debated this online but black people have a serious image problem. We always have to be the coolest, the hardest, the realest, or whatever. It's taught to us at an early age. Only on black radio stations do we hear that it's okay to fight the police, kill our brothers, or sell drugs. But "It's our story and it needs to be told!" Bullshit. That's not MY story but it dominates the airwaves.

So, when other races look at us and are afraid because of our image, who is to blame? Them for being afraid or us for acting scary? It's an endless cycle of irresponsibility and people are dying as a result.

Good people are getting lumped in with the bad. Bad people are treated like heroes and martyrs. The problem is getting worse and worse.

Your town has a station where they incite violence?