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Forums - Politics Discussion - US air strike in Syria kills up to 85 civilians 'mistaken for Isil fighters'

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Soundwave said:
The issue is casting America constantly as the great evil by Islamic leaders creates a convienant scapegoat to blind the public in Middle Eastern countries to their own shitty leadership and poor politics.

America is not the virtuous, perfect entity, but they're not so terrible as Middle Eastern leaders try to brainwash their populations into thinking either. In reality they're actually like a clumsy dolt at times, lots of military power but often times it's not very accurate.

This is unfortunate, really terrible (and even sadder that the US media isn't covering this at all), but the person using this as justification to go join ISIS is badly misguided as well. That's not going to help that region at all and only reason a mistake like this can happen is because you have radical religious nutjobs like ISIS running amok in the US. 

What boggles my mind is how the civilians in ISIL, mostly loyalists cause they aggressively drove out dissenters, can't see how crap their leaders are.  They are *trying* to get them killed to make propaganda, how can they not see how utterly effed up that is?!  I mean, if a large battle is on your doorstep and your governing force *forces you to stay*, that should set off alarm bells if you are capable of thinking on your own.

I won't condone errors like this, they shouldn't happen and it is sad that one has happened now after months of fairly smooth sailing.  Well, smooth as things can be in that madhouse.  But the reality that no one likes is that total war, which has essentially been the tactic used by all parties involved against ISIL, results in civilian loss of life.  Often large.  I mean, fhe Allied Forces of WWII - "The Greatest Generation" - caused directly or indirectly the deaths of over 4 million civilians in their war efforts against the Axis.  It was accepted, though not celebrated or desired, because the threat and intolerable violence of the Axis had to be stopled.  We cannot sit and condemn the ISIL - rightly - as ruthless and animalistic and buckle at the cost of war.  

War is tragic, war is brutal.  War is, by its very definition, inhumane to some degree.  This isn't a prize fight where non combatants are some audience.  Its an armed conflict, it's messy and ugly.  Instead of using tragic misfortune to vilify, sometimes to the point of dehumanizing, we should all look and see the cost of hasty judgment, of making war without counting the cost.  Of why diplomatic solutions and careful planning should always come before righteous indignation-fueled shock-and-awe.  This should be a warning against war, not against the "super evil, ruthless" United States, a warning that no matter how far you advance your technology, war will always be hell.  It never changes.



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Angelus said:

Don't envy the people making those calls that's for sure

At least they can go home to their families



Zkuq said:
KLAMarine said:

You post as though these civilian deaths were done on purpose.

Mistakes like this shouldn't happen. The fact that these mistakes happen and continue to happen is a sign that they're not taken seriously enough, for one reason or another. To me, it seems that the ones responsible for strikes like this don't value the lives of the people living there enough to take enough care to prevent these mistakes. You can't go killing almost a hundred people by mistake, it's just not justifiable in any practical manner.

They shouldn't happen but they will happen. Room for error will always be there especially considering how ISIS does not shy away from making use of human shields as they fight a desperate battle against advancing US-led coalition forces.

I think we all know how brutal ISIS can be.



Puppyroach said:
So the US by sanction of its state murders 85 innocent civilians in Syria and a terrorist murders 84 innocent civilians in Nice. Both these actions must be heavily condemned.

I wouldn't use the term 'murder' for the death of the 85 innocent civilians in Syria considering those deaths were accidental as far as is known. The Nice deaths were very much intentional.



Goatseye said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Innocent people die in war, its just gonna happen.

Its a good reason to avoid war when possible.

Remember that next time they attack the West.

Innocent deaths are always preventable especially at the click of a button on a remote control.

How can innocent people avoid wars, when West (especially America) brings it to them all the time?

Everyone (3rd world) that dared to nationalize their natural resources since the beggining of 20th century, suffered at the hands of the West one way or another.

Next time there is an attack in the west I will again wonder why the west puts up with this jihad. We could obliterate them in weeks, but we dont.

West brought a war to place begging for it.



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nil8r153 said:
Forgive my scattered thoughts and overly emotional posts, my best friends brother was murdered yesterday and I am a bit shaken up. He didn't do anything wrong at all. His only offence was being a Muslim in a time where the media has made that a crime in itself. This message is random and off-topic, I am not directing it at anyone:
Let's not spread hate (what may be perceived as anti-US rhetoric on my part is merely analysis, I love everyone - don't take offence please :) )

Seen this and the above reply and just wanted to firstly give my condolences on the death and I can understand how that would cause your posts to be a bit more emotionally driven, the thing we can easily forget is that no matter who gets shot or killed even if they were a member of a "terror" group or just an innocent bystander, everyone who dies from conflicts has a mother and a father, a family who cares about them and a death is still a tragic thing for the people around, even if it would have been someone who was against the western machine (even though this isn't the case here).

I guess sadly for some people, myself included is that we see an attack going wrong like this which killed almost the same number as who died in France last Friday and we internally think "well, at least it wasn't the western world that got attacked" so we attempt to justify it and explain it off in a way that makes perfect sense, and the reality of it is, it's still an attack on Civilians who done nothing wrong, other than the area they are living in which they couldn't help down to being kept as human shields by monsters who would use their own people to hide behind... but either way, civilian deaths are a terrible thing regardless of which side of the fight you find yourself on.

Again though I'm sorry for your familys loss.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Goatseye said:

Remember that next time they attack the West.

Innocent deaths are always preventable especially at the click of a button on a remote control.

How can innocent people avoid wars, when West (especially America) brings it to them all the time?

Everyone (3rd world) that dared to nationalize their natural resources since the beggining of 20th century, suffered at the hands of the West one way or another.

Next time there is an attack in the west I will again wonder why the west puts up with this jihad. We could obliterate them in weeks, but we dont.

West brought a war to place begging for it.

kind of fucked up saying they were "begging for it".. whether deaths are expected in war or not. these are innocent human lives that were not "begging for it".  

egypt, syria, iraq, iran, pakistan, afghanistan... all of these countries were doing just fine before the west came and pushed their "democratic" ideology, inciting revolutions that just lead to conflicts.  everything youre seeing now stems from the west's interference with the east's politics. 



want some pot? i made a coffee.

Well ISIS gained some members from that..



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Western media will fob this off as collateral damage and payback for French attacks. Using violence and hate to fight back against violence and hate only leads to more violence and hate.



bl00dyroar said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Next time there is an attack in the west I will again wonder why the west puts up with this jihad. We could obliterate them in weeks, but we dont.

West brought a war to place begging for it.

kind of fucked up saying they were "begging for it".. whether deaths are expected in war or not. these are innocent human lives that were not "begging for it".  

egypt, syria, iraq, iran, pakistan, afghanistan... all of these countries were doing just fine before the west came and pushed their "democratic" ideology, inciting revolutions that just lead to conflicts.  everything youre seeing now stems from the west's interference with the east's politics. 

The Middle East is always gonna be a mess if the people there can't move past antiquated ideologies.

What people considerer fine for the middle east is a hell hole for many. Sorry, but Sharia law seems like an awful way to run a country and clearly impedes on the happiness of many.



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