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Forums - Politics Discussion - Where Police/African American Relations Went Wrong (A Working Explanation?)

So after the tragic events of the past few days, there has been an outpouring of (mostly) support. With the exception of the ocassional embittered, vitriolic internet poster, pretty much everyone has addressed the issue of White Police killing African Americans and vice versa with a fair amount of dignity and respect. And yet, despite this incident and the myriad of occurances that proceed it, we still don't seem to have much of a consensus as to why this happens. Some people blame the police for simply profiling, others blame blacks for not following officers' orders or simply disrespecting the laws, and some fall inbetween. I would argue that all of these theories inevitably miss the mark, however, and the big mistake that all of these assumptions fall into is that the problem is initiated at police/black relations. I would argue that the explanation goes deeper, and yet, despite this, is actually rather simple. So here we go; an attempt to explain where problems begin.

Part 1 (TL;DR Edition): Police tend to profile African Americans at a higher rate due to African Americans disproportionately committing crimes

You'd be perfectly reasonable to look at Part 1 and immediately say: "Wait, didn't you just say that this theory misses the mark two paragraphs ago?" Well, yes, I did, but this isn't the full extent of the theory. This is largely just laying the ground work, which is that police tend to profile African Americans based on the fact that they encounter them at a disproporiate rate when responding to reports of criminal activity. This isn't even particularly debate-able, either; 37% of America's prisoners are black, while only 13% of America's population is black. Blacks are also far more likely to be arrested for violent crimes as well; 37% of Americans arrested for violent crimes are African American. There's certainly room for debate on whether this skewing of the statistic is, in fact, due to profiling, and at some level, it probably is. Some white people probably do get let off for crimes that they would get arrested for if they were black. But I don't think it explains a 24% discrepancy. 

If we buy that African Americans do commit more crimes, then it explains a lot about why police profile them more heavily in the first place. One of the primary features of the brain is the ability to draw connections. From an early age, we are able to associate one thing with another. Unlucky children quickly realize that touching the stove means their fingers will be burnt. Even animals have this ability; pets associate the shaking of a food box means they will be fed soon, and dogs are generally trained by getting them to associate doing a trick with receiving a treat until doing the trick becomes second nature. As humans, we do this sort of associating without even realizing it. We make assumptions about people to help understand the world around us, to make better judgments...and to help keep us safe. Police inevitably do this as well. If they are running into African Americans at a disproportionate rate, then they are more likely to associate them with danger. And if they associate them with danger, they are more likely to treat them in an unfair manner. Police may very well be, unknowingly, profiling without even realizing it. If the regular human profiles in every day life, then police are certainly going to be unwittingly profiling with their lives on the line.

But that doesn't explain everything. Why, then, are police running into blacks more disproportinately?

Part 2: African Americans tend to Commit Crimes at a Higher Rate Not Because of a Lack of Respect for Laws, but Because They are More Likely to Not Receive a Proper Upbringing

The statistics here aren't even close to debateable. While high school dropout rates have plummeted for minorities over the past few years, current black adults are far more likely to have dropped out of school than white adults. While high school dropout rates among whites has remained fairly consistent over the past 15 years, at roughly 5%, it has been as high as 15% for African Americans, nearly a 3:1 ratio. This, incidentially, is nearly the exact same ratio as the number of criminals per racial population in America on a per person basis. If this wasn't enough, 1 out of every 10 high school drop outs is in jail currently, compared with 1 out of 35 for those who graduate from high school. Even if you take African Americans out of that mix, it's 1 out of every 14 HS drop outs that are currently in jail. Clearly, dropping out from high school has a drastic effect on someone's chances of leading a successful life. Finding a long term job is difficult as is without a college degree, but it's incredibly hard without a high school one.

This means that African Americans, who disproportionately drop out of high school, are disproportinately unemployed. This checks out as well, the African American unemployment rate is nearly double that of whites. And, wouldn't you know it, unemployed Americans are more likely to be involved with crime. Most significantly, drug usage is far higher among the unemployed. Unemployed people are more likely to be depressed, which can lead to drug usage, but they are also more likely to turn to distributing drugs as well. And since African Americans are disproportonately unemployed...they will also be disprotionately involved with crime. 

Now, granted, high school is sometimes more of an indicator than an actual cause. It can indicate that the schools being attended are so bad they are not worth finishing, or that the parents did not actively encourage their kids to do well in school, or that a child's classmates influened them in a negative way and dragged them away from school, or that his family was so poor that they had to drop out of school and try to earn money to help their parents survive. Point is, ultimately, that one way or another, African American children are not getting the education they need. This means they are less likely to find a job, more likely to turn to crime, and as a result, disproportionately likely to be caught with police, which would lead to the uninentinonal profiling on the police's part mentioned earlier.

Part 3: So How Do We Fix This?

Ultimately, if the base problem is with the way children are being brought up, then any solution would need to start there. Talk all we want about trying to put more restraints on the police, or (as one rather ridiculous commenter suggested) rounding up all African Americans and letting them govern themselves, we are not solving this problem without first tackling the underlying issue of WHY profiling is occuring in the first place. We are trying to combat an instinctive response by telling people to be more logical; something that will never work when people are genuinely afraid for their lives.

Instead, we need to combat it where the problem initially begins, which, in large part, is education. The quality of America's public schools (again, disproportionately attended by blacks) is abysmal, and performance is far more likely to be explained by socio economic status in the US (15%) than in any other developed country. African Americans are also more likely to be divorced, according to Dr. Andrew Chelin from John Hopkins University; 32% of black couples divorce compared with 21% of white couples. This higher divorce rate may be due in par to aforementioned issues, but the issue isn't the why it happens, it's that it does happen. Couples that are divorced are simply not going to be able to raise a child as well. And if a child is having to deal with a low quality of school, while worrying about their parents fighting or having to consistently switch between houses, then, well, it should be fairly obvious why they would be more likely to drop out.

So education is not the only issue that should be tackled; family structure needs to as well. As for how to address this, I'm not entirely sure, but the general idea would be to stop the snowball. Give a generation of African American children the chance to collectively make up some of the difference, and then go from there. Improve the quality of public education through some means; perhaps put means testing on social security or slashing foreign aid from some of the many Middle Eastern countries we pour resources into, and put that into improving public schools. In addition, offer current low income households classes on smart financial sense and building relationships. Perhaps put that as a requirement for welfare checks if no one in the family is working full time; as unemployed people are far more likely to make poor financial choices than those who do have a steady job.

Ultimately, though, the point of this thread isn't to offer a full fledged solution. It's simply to explain where the problem begins. And I believe the problem does not begin with the police being out to get anyone, nor do I believe the problem exists because African Americans are just inherently problematic. The problem lies in a community being disadvantaged due to socio economic trends that have existed for over a century. Give any race the same disadvantage, and you would quickly find them turning to crime in the same manner, and thus, causing the police to instinctively profile them. Over time, if the quality of public education can be improved, this could genuinely decrease the rate of crime among African Americans, causing them to interact in a negative light with police far less frequently, and lowering the chance for that profiling to ever happen at all. The current improvement in graduation rates among minority students are very encouraging, and hopefully serve as the first step towards undoing this in the long run.



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Violence in the USA is droping at a consistent rate since the 90s.

I don't think anything went wrong if you look at the hard cold data from the past and today. The chances of a black man being killed a cop is ridiculously low, specialy if you are not doing anything wrong.

Worst of all the "Black Lives Matter" movement does not accept more reasenable explanation for the discrepancy in deaths by the police. Almost the same way the man-woman "Wage Gap" is a fabrication of natural tendencies in human behaviour than an institutionalized rule of the patriarchy.

Police work is probaly one of the worst jobs any one could choose. You are exposed to the worst of human kind every day, your life is in danger and you are despised by part of the public. Add to that corruption and it's realy surprising that only a minority of police workers do bad things.



Dark_Feanor said:
Violence in the USA is droping at a consistent rate since the 90s.

I don't think anything went wrong if you look at the hard cold data from the past and today. The chances of a black man being killed a cop is ridiculously low, specialy if you are not doing anything wrong.

Simultaneously, police killings are on the rise, having gone from just a little over 300 in 1993 to 461 in 2013. The number of police being killed in the line of duty has increased as well. Even if "violence" as a whole is decreasing, the specific topic we're looking at, police violence, is on the rise.

I do agree that police have an extremely tough job, and I'm by no means trying to disparage them outside of the few that have abused their power. Thier job is one I would never want.



There's a lot of problems with the current situation, but to me, the biggest problem with police violence seems to be police officers being allowed to use so much violence. They should be trained to use the least amount of force necessary, and there should be repercussions for using more force than a situation requires. A lot of the killings that have received more publicity have seemed like huge overreactions from the police, and could probably have been avoided if the police weren't so eager to use lethal force. A person shouldn't be allowed to kill innocent people just because of his/her profession.



MTZehvor said:
Dark_Feanor said:
Violence in the USA is droping at a consistent rate since the 90s.

I don't think anything went wrong if you look at the hard cold data from the past and today. The chances of a black man being killed a cop is ridiculously low, specialy if you are not doing anything wrong.

Simultaneously, police killings are on the rise, having gone from just a little over 300 in 1993 to 461 in 2013. The number of police being killed in the line of duty has increased as well. Even if "violence" as a whole is decreasing, the specific topic we're looking at, police violence, is on the rise.

I do agree that police have an extremely tough job, and I'm by no means trying to disparage them outside of the few that have abused their power. Thier job is one I would never want.

USA population in 1993 was 250mi that gives 0,12 per 100k

USA population in 2016 is 320mi them we have 0,14 per 100k

This 20% incrise is mostly noise, since the numbers are so low. This is literally "one in a million" cases. Far more people in the USA dies from you have more than 100x chances of dying from the flu than being shot by the police.



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Interesting and with some info I didn't know before like the divorce rate. Statistics normally have location patterns as well with some areas having the problem far less and others far more. Are there good areas in the US already working well that can be emulated elsewhere?

Personally I don't believe the Police are acting on fear when they kill a man who clearly can't fight back at that stage. It's hate and anger of that particular individual. For many of the reasons you have already stated I think a level of hate has developed for black males by some police and this can be clearly seen in many of these incidents. I think many Police are emotionally involved when they do their job and have lost the ability to do a professional job.. It must be a hugely stressful job and and don't envy those people doing it.

What I don't understand is how Police often get away with killing black people. Surely these people should be prosecuted correctly for murder or the very least manslaughter and be put away for a long time losing all rights to pensions etc. Anything less is offensive and puts them above the law which is bound to enrage anyone. If you don't punish them correctly then clearly that will create huge problems. Personally I think this is the first step in the solution. I'm sure most black people don't have a problem with a policeman acting in self-defence but a man on the ground with no ability to fight back. If you see it happen once you can't help but wonder if other unfilmed incidents of black people being shot were also murder rather than self-defence.



"So How Do We Fix This?"
The only way we can fix it: seeing as how each case is isolated, the only way any and all incidents can be addressed is on a case-by-case basis.



Society is acting like police is evil.

In fact this week 2 black men were shot who BOTH carried a gun and we still dont know exactly what happened. Most people judging anyways.
They werent shot because they were black but because the police officers thought that the black men wanted to shoot them. It was self defending.
In both cases police officers tried to revive the black mens and also called the ambulance. The black girl didnt called the ambulance but made a video after her boyfriend got shot. Think about this.


On the other hand black people are sniping completly innocent police officers for no reason.



The problem isnt the police. The problem are the black people who attack/kill police officers and because of them, all other innocent black people have to suffer from them, because the police will be VERY CAREFULL when face any black people (they cant know if this people is one of the 98% innocent, or the 2% extremly violent).

Its ridiculous to blame the police. The real criminal black people are to blame. Its all their fault. And all nice black people have to suffer from this.



Better police training is the most glaring need IMHO.



spurgeonryan said:
Yes profile. I hope people do not think police want to lose their job and that they are racist.

African Americans have caused all of this. Cops are so afr aid of being shot that everything is out of control. Just look at the Chicago situation, Chiraq!, cabrini green, Almost as much city devastation as Detroit, and all mostly due to poor African Americans. It's a fact in case anyone wants to call me racist. What got them to this point is irrelevant, they make these choices. It's never the poor whites or Hispanics or Indians in the news here. Just the African americans. In the Chicago area we live in terror of them.

I am really sorry to say, but that is the case. I have no ill will toward anyone and have had many good times with all races. In fact, my best friend in the military was black.

Stop blaming cops for everything...Long story short.

Thank you for the honest post.

This interests me a lot. Now, I think the OP gave an absolutely superb analysis of the main explanation of the cops versus blacks relationship and problem, and it's a shame there isn't more awareness of this, and it's such a shame that many people really believe that racism is prevalent in society, and in the other direction; that people believe that black people are inherently prone to crime.

But now I got curious about how whites perceive black people with regards to crime and the risk of being a target. There's not so much written about it cos it's a bit sensitive.

So could you elaborate plz on this? For example how do people talk about going late at night and how they choose where to go? Do u ever tell each other not to go alone? Are you afraid of thugs? How big parts of the metropolis do you feel is too risky and when? Do u also fink normal people are intimidating to some extent? Is it easy to spot the persons who are dangerous or u are afraid of everybody?

Anything u can tell plz and anybody else please reply for that matter. And perspective from any black person is super interesting.

And obviously take care to express yourself politely and in a sensitive, respectful matter.