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11 officers shot, 1 bystander shot during protests over recent shootings

Forums - Politics Discussion - 11 officers shot, 1 bystander shot during protests over recent shootings

Soundwave said:
Chevinator123 said:
weak minded stupid people this isnt going to stop anything its only going to instigate racism. its all BLM has ever done and now its been taken to the next level

So what exactly is your solution? People should stay quiet when they see civilians being killed in unprovoked situations on camera? 

honestly i dont know but killing in retaliation obviously isnt the answer



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Peh said:
Nuvendil said:

Also couldn't have been prevented if you made guns illegal cause a guy commited to setting up in some building and gunning down 11 police officers I think is well past the stage of giving a single solitary f*** about gun laws.  These types of crimes are the ones least effected either way by gun laws, but I digress.

 

As for this, it's these kinds of incidents and this "us vs them" and " arm yourself against the police" mentality implicitly and sometimes explicitly supported by certain haymakers, extremists, and "activists" (read "souless, narcisistic parasites") that is causing this continuous cycle of violence that has really become apparent in the past few years.  And the media making huge controversies for views, social media pricks making excessive drama out of some perverse narcisistic need for attention, and celebraties backing up the loons I previously mentioned ((*cough*Samuel L Jackson*cough*) only make it far worse.  Why do you think cops are so freaking nervous on the job now?  Especially young ones that heard about all this crap in the acadamy or their rookie year?  Cops are people and this kinda toxic crap effects people.  Hopefully this particular incident will help shock people out of it as it was a peaceful protest and all these cops and a bystander got shot not by cops but by some civilian prick.  But I doubt it.  All those people I listed at the start of this rant will be out making their rounds and using the very people they claim to represent to stir up ire and tension all for their own ends.  Disgusting situations.

I have to correct myself. This could have been avoided if the cops had a gun.

If you permit everyone easy access to guns and even ones which I question myself in what way do they need those do defend themself, then there you go. You reap what you sow.

But this is not the main problem. The main problem is the badly educated police officers not trained enough.

How to become a cop in Dallas:

"Becoming a cop in Dallas requires that candidates first meet some basic prerequisites. First, all applicants must be US citizens and hold a valid driver’s license. Unlike many other cities, police officers at the DPD are required to have completed some college by the time they apply, substituted only by having served at least three years in the military with an honorable discharge. With 60 credit hours from an accredited college or university and a minimum GPA of 2.0, candidates must be at least 19 years and six months old at the time of application. With 45 credit hours from an accredited college or university and a minimum GPA of 2.0, applicants must be between the ages of 21-44.

Prospective Dallas cops should have a vision in each eye of at least 20/100, no pending court cases, and no more than three hazardous traffic violations in the past 24 months. The DPD also has a tattoo policy, which can be explained by a recruiter.

The first step for joining the law enforcement team in Dallas is to have a preliminary screening interview. Then, applicants must pass a board interview with DPD police officers and supervisors. Following the interviews, a polygraph, psychological and medical exam, and a background check will be performed. Next, a physical test will be administered, which includes a bench press, run, sit-ups and push-ups. Upon passing these evaluations, candidates will attend a 35-week academy, for which they will be paid, followed by 24 weeks of field training."

http://www.how-to-become-a-police-officer.com/cities/dallas/

So, you can become in less then a year a cop in Dallas? Wow. In Germany you need 2 and a half year at minimum to become a police officer. I don't see german police officers shooting citizens, because they feel like it.

Almost no cops shoot civilians cause they feel like it.  And this is 11 officers shot by two civilians who had the brilliant idea that gunning down 11 innocent cops who did absolutely nothing will somehow make all the bad cops in the world suddenly behave.  Say what you want about cops in Dallas but at least they don't go into a crime ridden neighborhood, round up eleven innocent people and shoot them in hopes the criminals will behave.  In fact, the recent shooting wasn't even IN Dalas.  The cop who shot someone was in Minesota for goodness sake so bringing up the competency of Dallas's police force here seems rather out of place. 

As for why ALL cops carry guns, the way the system works here is that all cops are equipped to be first responders to any call.  If you call 911 and tell them some guy is shooting at your house or a man broke in with a knife, they don't dispatch someone from the station they dispatch the nearest unit.  If your standard police officer was armed with piss all, they wouldn't be too effective in responding to deadly threats.

As for rights to bear arms, not going into that here.  But my point was people like this who want to shoot in cold, calculated measure or in completely crazy way a bunch of people will not care if they are allowed to carry a gun.  The illegal gun trade is there and is accessible to those who don't really care about consequences.  Which people like this rarely due.  Sure, they would likely not go long after purchasing the gun without being caught but the reality is they aren't going to sit on the gun, they're going to shoot people with it. 

Finally,  I never said it was a perfect system and that EVERY city has perfect standards for police recruitment.  However, the generatioin of a mostly entirely artificial "us vs them" mentality is what is making cops increasingly nervous and angry around many civilians and making civilians unwilling to cooperate with and even behave agressively towards police officers.  Which will only make this worse and perpetuate the violence.  Cause police officers ARE people, no matter how much you educate them they are people and this kinda stuff does effect people. 

PS: do your math again.  Years have 52 weeks.  35 week academy + 24 week field training + all the other interviews and examinations = 60+ weeks.  It's not the highest standard in the States much less the world but at least get your complaints right.



Nuvendil said:
Peh said:

I have to correct myself. This could have been avoided if the cops had a gun.

If you permit everyone easy access to guns and even ones which I question myself in what way do they need those do defend themself, then there you go. You reap what you sow.

But this is not the main problem. The main problem is the badly educated police officers not trained enough.

How to become a cop in Dallas:

"Becoming a cop in Dallas requires that candidates first meet some basic prerequisites. First, all applicants must be US citizens and hold a valid driver’s license. Unlike many other cities, police officers at the DPD are required to have completed some college by the time they apply, substituted only by having served at least three years in the military with an honorable discharge. With 60 credit hours from an accredited college or university and a minimum GPA of 2.0, candidates must be at least 19 years and six months old at the time of application. With 45 credit hours from an accredited college or university and a minimum GPA of 2.0, applicants must be between the ages of 21-44.

Prospective Dallas cops should have a vision in each eye of at least 20/100, no pending court cases, and no more than three hazardous traffic violations in the past 24 months. The DPD also has a tattoo policy, which can be explained by a recruiter.

The first step for joining the law enforcement team in Dallas is to have a preliminary screening interview. Then, applicants must pass a board interview with DPD police officers and supervisors. Following the interviews, a polygraph, psychological and medical exam, and a background check will be performed. Next, a physical test will be administered, which includes a bench press, run, sit-ups and push-ups. Upon passing these evaluations, candidates will attend a 35-week academy, for which they will be paid, followed by 24 weeks of field training."

http://www.how-to-become-a-police-officer.com/cities/dallas/

So, you can become in less then a year a cop in Dallas? Wow. In Germany you need 2 and a half year at minimum to become a police officer. I don't see german police officers shooting citizens, because they feel like it.

Almost no cops shoot civilians cause they feel like it.  And this is 11 officers shot by two civilians who had the brilliant idea that gunning down 11 innocent cops who did absolutely nothing will somehow make all the bad cops in the world suddenly behave.  Say what you want about cops in Dallas but at least they don't go into a crime ridden neighborhood, round up eleven innocent people and shoot them in hopes the criminals will behave.  In fact, the recent shooting wasn't even IN Dalas.  The cop who shot someone was in Minesota for goodness sake so bringing up the competency of Dallas's police force here seems rather out of place. 

As for why ALL cops carry guns, the way the system works here is that all cops are equipped to be first responders to any call.  If you call 911 and tell them some guy is shooting at your house or a man broke in with a knife, they don't dispatch someone from the station they dispatch the nearest unit.  If your standard police officer was armed with piss all, they wouldn't be too effective in responding to deadly threats.

As for rights to bear arms, not going into that here.  But my point was people like this who want to shoot in cold, calculated measure or in completely crazy way a bunch of people will not care if they are allowed to carry a gun.  The illegal gun trade is there and is accessible to those who don't really care about consequences.  Which people like this rarely due.  Sure, they'll get caught if they would likely not go long after purchasing the gun without being caught but the reality is they aren't going to sit on the gun, they're going to shoot people with it. 

Finally,  I never said it was a perfect system and that EVERY city has perfect standards for police recruitment.  However, the generatioin of a mostly entirely artificial "us vs them" mentality is what is making cops increasingly nervous and angry around many civilians and making civilians unwilling to cooperate with and even behave agressively towards police officers.  Which will only make this worse and perpetuate the violence.  Cause police officers ARE people, no matter how much you educate them they are people and this kinda stuff does effect people. 

PS: do your math again.  Years have 52 weeks.  35 week academy + 24 week field training + all the other interviews and examinations = 60+ weeks.  It's not the highest standard in the States much less the world but at least get your complaints right.

Cops are people, and just like regular people ... some of them are assholes, even if the majority are brave and good people. The issue is that they don't ever call out the bad ones, and as such they've built up an institution where there is virtually no accountability. 

Which then leds to pent up anger when people see a person get shot to death on camera (thanks to smartphones, there's no hiding it anymore), the cop gets off scott free after a 2 month suspension of whatever and the cycle repeats again and again. 

This happening in a way was fairly (and sadly) predictable. 



Chevinator123 said:
Soundwave said:

So what exactly is your solution? People should stay quiet when they see civilians being killed in unprovoked situations on camera? 

honestly i dont know but killing in retaliation obviously isnt the answer

If you cant even offer a better solution how are you to say that the one that was taken on those cops was worse than nothing? You can't sit around and say that isnt right but not have a better solution it makes your whole point look weak. Mind you I don't think what was done was right at all, but people have to do something. People are angry and hurt over innocent people being murdered by those sent to protect them this was bound to happen given how things have been going. 



Darama said:
And this is why Police shoot black people in the first place.

If they live in fear of randomly getting shot one day by the police then its not unlikely they would do something this drastic. Its the same cycle as islamic extremists. You bomb their countries so obviously they're going to fight back.



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Nuvendil said:
Peh said:

I have to correct myself. This could have been avoided if the cops had a gun.

If you permit everyone easy access to guns and even ones which I question myself in what way do they need those do defend themself, then there you go. You reap what you sow.

But this is not the main problem. The main problem is the badly educated police officers not trained enough.

How to become a cop in Dallas:

"Becoming a cop in Dallas requires that candidates first meet some basic prerequisites. First, all applicants must be US citizens and hold a valid driver’s license. Unlike many other cities, police officers at the DPD are required to have completed some college by the time they apply, substituted only by having served at least three years in the military with an honorable discharge. With 60 credit hours from an accredited college or university and a minimum GPA of 2.0, candidates must be at least 19 years and six months old at the time of application. With 45 credit hours from an accredited college or university and a minimum GPA of 2.0, applicants must be between the ages of 21-44.

Prospective Dallas cops should have a vision in each eye of at least 20/100, no pending court cases, and no more than three hazardous traffic violations in the past 24 months. The DPD also has a tattoo policy, which can be explained by a recruiter.

The first step for joining the law enforcement team in Dallas is to have a preliminary screening interview. Then, applicants must pass a board interview with DPD police officers and supervisors. Following the interviews, a polygraph, psychological and medical exam, and a background check will be performed. Next, a physical test will be administered, which includes a bench press, run, sit-ups and push-ups. Upon passing these evaluations, candidates will attend a 35-week academy, for which they will be paid, followed by 24 weeks of field training."

http://www.how-to-become-a-police-officer.com/cities/dallas/

So, you can become in less then a year a cop in Dallas? Wow. In Germany you need 2 and a half year at minimum to become a police officer. I don't see german police officers shooting citizens, because they feel like it.

Almost no cops shoot civilians cause they feel like it.  And this is 11 officers shot by two civilians who had the brilliant idea that gunning down 11 innocent cops who did absolutely nothing will somehow make all the bad cops in the world suddenly behave.  Say what you want about cops in Dallas but at least they don't go into a crime ridden neighborhood, round up eleven innocent people and shoot them in hopes the criminals will behave.  In fact, the recent shooting wasn't even IN Dalas.  The cop who shot someone was in Minesota for goodness sake so bringing up the competency of Dallas's police force here seems rather out of place. 

As for why ALL cops carry guns, the way the system works here is that all cops are equipped to be first responders to any call.  If you call 911 and tell them some guy is shooting at your house or a man broke in with a knife, they don't dispatch someone from the station they dispatch the nearest unit.  If your standard police officer was armed with piss all, they wouldn't be too effective in responding to deadly threats.

As for rights to bear arms, not going into that here.  But my point was people like this who want to shoot in cold, calculated measure or in completely crazy way a bunch of people will not care if they are allowed to carry a gun.  The illegal gun trade is there and is accessible to those who don't really care about consequences.  Which people like this rarely due.  Sure, they would likely not go long after purchasing the gun without being caught but the reality is they aren't going to sit on the gun, they're going to shoot people with it. 

Finally,  I never said it was a perfect system and that EVERY city has perfect standards for police recruitment.  However, the generatioin of a mostly entirely artificial "us vs them" mentality is what is making cops increasingly nervous and angry around many civilians and making civilians unwilling to cooperate with and even behave agressively towards police officers.  Which will only make this worse and perpetuate the violence.  Cause police officers ARE people, no matter how much you educate them they are people and this kinda stuff does effect people. 

PS: do your math again.  Years have 52 weeks.  35 week academy + 24 week field training + all the other interviews and examinations = 60+ weeks.  It's not the highest standard in the States much less the world but at least get your complaints right.

I guess you misunderstood my first sentence. This argument of "if x had a gun, this could have been avoided" is the main argument from the NRA for school shootouts. I'm just ridiculing it.

A year has 52-54 weeks per year. Not just 52. But that's not even the point of what I said. The point is, that Cops accross the US are badly trained which give idiots like these a reason to go on a killing spree at cops.

Minnesota has a longer education span for becoming a cop (2-4 years). So, no complains there at the moment. But that's sadly not the case for all the states.

Of course you got your bad share of cops everywhere which drag all the cops in your state into a bad light. But the worst part is that the police stationa are backing some of these up.

Also this: http://www.innocentdown.org/ fuels the agression towards police.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11GB VRAM | Asus PG27UQ gaming on 3840 x 2160 @120 Hz GSYNC HDR| HTC Vive Pro :3

Reached PC master race level.

I don't agree with the killings at all, but this is what happens when a group of people are subjected to police brutality, police shootings and the like for over a decade and things have only got worse instead of better. People give up on justice and fairness and innocent people end up paying the price for it.

The Shooter(s) are definitely in the wrong, but they are just as guilty as anyone who has helped an officer walk free after committing murder or an act of police brutality, just as guilty as those who have got the corrupt officers off lightly and just as guilty as those in power who have sat idle over the years and not done anything to help make things better.

I say what I say out of fear because I don't see this getting better and this leads to more innocent people being caught in the crossfire. The police will be more on edge now than before add they will know there are people out there pissed off enough to take them out. Many Black people will be pissed off because the police won't admit shit and their treatment will probably get worse. It will be an endless vicious cycle.



Whoever said life to be like a box of chocolates clearly didn't know what he was talking about. 

Life is more like a game of bumper cars. At every turn there is a possibility you will get screwed.

Peh said:
Nuvendil said:

Almost no cops shoot civilians cause they feel like it.  And this is 11 officers shot by two civilians who had the brilliant idea that gunning down 11 innocent cops who did absolutely nothing will somehow make all the bad cops in the world suddenly behave.  Say what you want about cops in Dallas but at least they don't go into a crime ridden neighborhood, round up eleven innocent people and shoot them in hopes the criminals will behave.  In fact, the recent shooting wasn't even IN Dalas.  The cop who shot someone was in Minesota for goodness sake so bringing up the competency of Dallas's police force here seems rather out of place. 

As for why ALL cops carry guns, the way the system works here is that all cops are equipped to be first responders to any call.  If you call 911 and tell them some guy is shooting at your house or a man broke in with a knife, they don't dispatch someone from the station they dispatch the nearest unit.  If your standard police officer was armed with piss all, they wouldn't be too effective in responding to deadly threats.

As for rights to bear arms, not going into that here.  But my point was people like this who want to shoot in cold, calculated measure or in completely crazy way a bunch of people will not care if they are allowed to carry a gun.  The illegal gun trade is there and is accessible to those who don't really care about consequences.  Which people like this rarely due.  Sure, they would likely not go long after purchasing the gun without being caught but the reality is they aren't going to sit on the gun, they're going to shoot people with it. 

Finally,  I never said it was a perfect system and that EVERY city has perfect standards for police recruitment.  However, the generatioin of a mostly entirely artificial "us vs them" mentality is what is making cops increasingly nervous and angry around many civilians and making civilians unwilling to cooperate with and even behave agressively towards police officers.  Which will only make this worse and perpetuate the violence.  Cause police officers ARE people, no matter how much you educate them they are people and this kinda stuff does effect people. 

PS: do your math again.  Years have 52 weeks.  35 week academy + 24 week field training + all the other interviews and examinations = 60+ weeks.  It's not the highest standard in the States much less the world but at least get your complaints right.

I guess you misunderstood my first sentence. This argument of "if x had a gun, this could have been avoided" is the main argument from the NRA for school shootouts. I'm just ridiculing it.

A year has 52-54 weeks per year. Not just 52. But that's not even the point of what I said. The point is, that Cops accross the US are badly trained which give idiots like these a reason to go on a killing spree at cops.

Minnesota has a longer education span for becoming a cop (2-4 years). So, no complains there at the moment. But that's sadly not the case for all the states.

Of course you got your bad share of cops everywhere which drag all the cops in your state into a bad light. But the worst part is that the police stationa are backing some of these up.

Also this: http://www.innocentdown.org/ fuels the agression towards police.

Well school shootings are inherently different than these situations. And it's a generalization to say that the presence or absence of an armed guard would stop all shootings, each is different.

But you point about the Minnesota thing proves my point.  Dallas cops get 60 weeks and they weren't the agressors in this incident and to my knowledge haven't had any bad shootings make headlines recently.  But the Minnesota cop after 2 years minimum gunned down a guy who was going for his wallet cause he paniced.  Education and training can help, but cops are people and the high tension right now is affecting cops as much as civilians.  It's more about the qualities of the person's training rather than the quantity.  60 good weeks is better than 4 poor years.  Now 4 good years is likely better than 60 good weaks before you bring it up but my point is, lack of training is only a small part of the problem.  And it's a problem on both ends, civilian and cop. 



Nuvendil said:
Peh said:

I guess you misunderstood my first sentence. This argument of "if x had a gun, this could have been avoided" is the main argument from the NRA for school shootouts. I'm just ridiculing it.

A year has 52-54 weeks per year. Not just 52. But that's not even the point of what I said. The point is, that Cops accross the US are badly trained which give idiots like these a reason to go on a killing spree at cops.

Minnesota has a longer education span for becoming a cop (2-4 years). So, no complains there at the moment. But that's sadly not the case for all the states.

Of course you got your bad share of cops everywhere which drag all the cops in your state into a bad light. But the worst part is that the police stationa are backing some of these up.

Also this: http://www.innocentdown.org/ fuels the agression towards police.

Well school shootings are inherently different than these situations. And it's a generalization to say that the presence or absence of an armed guard would stop all shootings, each is different.

But you point about the Minnesota thing proves my point.  Dallas cops get 60 weeks and they weren't the agressors in this incident and to my knowledge haven't had any bad shootings make headlines recently.  But the Minnesota cop after 2 years minimum gunned down a guy who was going for his wallet cause he paniced.  Education and training can help, but cops are people and the high tension right now is affecting cops as much as civilians.  It's more about the qualities of the person's training rather than the quantity.  60 good weeks is better than 4 poor years.  Now 4 good years is likely better than 60 good weaks before you bring it up but my point is, lack of training is only a small part of the problem.  And it's a problem on both ends, civilian and cop. 

I'm not defending one side or the other one. I have also seen the videos where civilians act like fucking idiots and they deserved what was coming at them.

Why Dallas and not Minnesota? Probably because the tension reached their limits over there. People don't care and don't know about the difference in the police educations between the states. They get fueled by the media and either had bad experiences with cops or grew a fear towards them.

If you don't give them a reason to hate you, they won't hate you.

Too sum it all up.

My deepest condolences for the fallen officers. It always hits the ones who have the least to do with this. You are now at a position to go on as it is or change how it works to avoid these in the future.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11GB VRAM | Asus PG27UQ gaming on 3840 x 2160 @120 Hz GSYNC HDR| HTC Vive Pro :3

Reached PC master race level.

Peh said:
Nuvendil said:

Well school shootings are inherently different than these situations. And it's a generalization to say that the presence or absence of an armed guard would stop all shootings, each is different.

But you point about the Minnesota thing proves my point.  Dallas cops get 60 weeks and they weren't the agressors in this incident and to my knowledge haven't had any bad shootings make headlines recently.  But the Minnesota cop after 2 years minimum gunned down a guy who was going for his wallet cause he paniced.  Education and training can help, but cops are people and the high tension right now is affecting cops as much as civilians.  It's more about the qualities of the person's training rather than the quantity.  60 good weeks is better than 4 poor years.  Now 4 good years is likely better than 60 good weaks before you bring it up but my point is, lack of training is only a small part of the problem.  And it's a problem on both ends, civilian and cop. 

I'm not defending one side or the other one. I have also seen the videos where civilians act like fucking idiots and they deserved what was coming at them.

Why Dallas and not Minnesota? Probably because the tension reached their limits over there. People don't care and don't know about the difference in the police educations between the states. They get fueled by the media and either had bad experiences with cops or grew a fear towards them.

If you don't give them a reason to hate you, they won't hate you.

Too sum it all up.

My deepest condolences for the fallen officers. It always hits the ones who have the least to do with this. You are now at a position to go on as it is or change how it works to avoid these in the future.

Minnesota's a pretty chilled state. I've rarely seen riots break out like the ones in the South.


And our cops are much better. The tougher requirements prevents policemen from getting in easily. Unfortunate that one of our policemen decided to kill an innocent dude.

 

 

I live pretty close to the place it occurred though. Driving past it gave me the chills in all honesty.



 

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