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Forums - PC Discussion - So AMD 480 is a dud, not nearly the amazing deal after all

Pemalite said:

It's actually NOT a bad card.
It's just priced badly.

If it was priced at $150 for the 4Gb and $200 for the 8Gb rather than starting both at essentially $50 higher than that... Then this would be an entirely different discussion.
Can't forget the early adopter tax on new hardware either which is driving the price up higher.

For future titles the RX 480 will fare better, it's shown to excel in Direct X 12 whilst still providing adequate performance in Direct X 9/10/11.

I think people were thinking this was some kind of 1440P/1600P/4k gaming monster based on TFLOP's alone, which was never AMD's intention... And based on that, had unreal expectations for where the product was going to be situated in AMD's lineup.

If you wanted great performance, Vega was where it was always at. Polaris is mid-range. Navi should shake things up as well.

I think that's cutting a bit too much slack for AMD. They definitely tried to sell it as a high range card for a mid range price. They banked in on the ignorance of the mainstream buyer.



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Slimebeast said:

What's most strange is that it draws more power than a Geforce 970 despite being a 14nm card compared with 28nm and coming out almost two years later.

What happened to "2.5x perf per Watt"?

That was compared to their own cards which were notoriously bad in efficiency. The new architecture didn't do much in that regards and the efficiency gain is almost exclusively due to the shrink.



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vivster said:
Slimebeast said:

What's most strange is that it draws more power than a Geforce 970 despite being a 14nm card compared with 28nm and coming out almost two years later.

What happened to "2.5x perf per Watt"?

That was compared to their own cards which were notoriously bad in efficiency. The new architecture didn't do much in that regards and the efficiency gain is almost exclusively due to the shrink.

Yeah I know but it still isn't true.

A 290/390 draws 275W and a 480 draws 160W at top speed, and if the 480 is 10% faster, the perf per Watt becomes only x1.9. Although I should use the Fury cards in this comparison, correct? Then it becomes even worse for AMD.

Well okay, it's not that far from what was advertized. But like you say, they had so much catching up to do versus Nvidia.

Still almost a whole generation behind. It's painful to be an AMD fan.

The Vega must beat a 1080 at least, because by then there'll be a 1080 Ti and I want my next PC to be top class.



Slimebeast said:
vivster said:

That was compared to their own cards which were notoriously bad in efficiency. The new architecture didn't do much in that regards and the efficiency gain is almost exclusively due to the shrink.

Yeah I know but it still isn't true.

A 290/390 draws 275W and a 480 draws 160W at top speed, and if the 480 is 10% faster, the perf per Watt becomes only x1.9. Although I should use the Fury cards in this comparison, correct? Then it becomes even worse for AMD.

Well okay, it's not that far from what was advertized. But like you say, they had so much catching up to do versus Nvidia.

Still almost a whole generation behind. It's painful to be an AMD fan.

The Vega must beat a 1080 at least, because by then there'll be a 1080 Ti and I want my next PC to be top class.

You might have to go with Big Pascal then. Rumors say that Vega 10 will be around 60% above the Fury X which will be above the 1080(40% above Fury X) but will be safely below Big Pascal. Though I fear Nvidia will adapt to that by not releasing the full Big Pascal and instead a smaller version that's only slightly above Vega10.

But either way the same rules as always apply. If you're on a budget, go with AMD. If not, go with the strongest card you can find.



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I always find Computer chips that are designed in a symetrical way are often the best performing.

Compare the diagram of the RX 480 and GTX 1070. Though I know these aren't accurate but they give you an idea of the generall placement of all the bits and bobs

 

GTX 1070



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vivster said:
Slimebeast said:

Yeah I know but it still isn't true.

A 290/390 draws 275W and a 480 draws 160W at top speed, and if the 480 is 10% faster, the perf per Watt becomes only x1.9. Although I should use the Fury cards in this comparison, correct? Then it becomes even worse for AMD.

Well okay, it's not that far from what was advertized. But like you say, they had so much catching up to do versus Nvidia.

Still almost a whole generation behind. It's painful to be an AMD fan.

The Vega must beat a 1080 at least, because by then there'll be a 1080 Ti and I want my next PC to be top class.

You might have to go with Big Pascal then. Rumors say that Vega 10 will be around 60% above the Fury X which will be above the 1080(40% above Fury X) but will be safely below Big Pascal. Though I fear Nvidia will adapt to that by not releasing the full Big Pascal and instead a smaller version that's only slightly above Vega10.

But either way the same rules as always apply. If you're on a budget, go with AMD. If not, go with the strongest card you can find.

Oh, there's Vega rumours already?!

If it's 60% above Fury X I would accept that, although before the 14nm tech launched I was dreaming of a new AMD GPU being 2.0x Fury X.

60% above the Fury X is exactly twice the performance of a RX 480. Do you really think they can do that in 2016, considering the RX 480 already draws a hefty 160W? That would need serious architectual improvements.



Slimebeast said:
vivster said:

That was compared to their own cards which were notoriously bad in efficiency. The new architecture didn't do much in that regards and the efficiency gain is almost exclusively due to the shrink.

Yeah I know but it still isn't true.

A 290/390 draws 275W and a 480 draws 160W at top speed, and if the 480 is 10% faster, the perf per Watt becomes only x1.9. Although I should use the Fury cards in this comparison, correct? Then it becomes even worse for AMD.

Well okay, it's not that far from what was advertized. But like you say, they had so much catching up to do versus Nvidia.

Still almost a whole generation behind. It's painful to be an AMD fan.

The Vega must beat a 1080 at least, because by then there'll be a 1080 Ti and I want my next PC to be top class.

That's because the Rx 480 isn't running at it's ideal speed, setting the Powertune to -20% lowers the power draw with 30W while only lowering the performance by 5%:

That means that the card is still faster than a 290/390 while only drawing about 120-130W. And it's a new card so performance will improve overtime with new drivers. So 2.5x improved in some cases is possible. Personally i'm curious about the RX 470, if that one overclocks decently it could be a a lot of value for the money.



Slimebeast said:
vivster said:

You might have to go with Big Pascal then. Rumors say that Vega 10 will be around 60% above the Fury X which will be above the 1080(40% above Fury X) but will be safely below Big Pascal. Though I fear Nvidia will adapt to that by not releasing the full Big Pascal and instead a smaller version that's only slightly above Vega10.

But either way the same rules as always apply. If you're on a budget, go with AMD. If not, go with the strongest card you can find.

Oh, there's Vega rumours already?!

If it's 60% above Fury X I would accept that, although before the 14nm tech launched I was dreaming of a new AMD GPU being 2.0x Fury X.

60% above the Fury X is exactly twice the performance of a RX 480. Do you really think they can do that in 2016, considering the RX 480 already draws a hefty 160W? That would need serious architectual improvements.

I don't really expect Vega this year. It should be around the same time as the new Titan early next year.



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shikamaru317 said:
Slimebeast said:

Oh, there's Vega rumours already?!

If it's 60% above Fury X I would accept that, although before the 14nm tech launched I was dreaming of a new AMD GPU being 2.0x Fury X.

60% above the Fury X is exactly twice the performance of a RX 480. Do you really think they can do that in 2016, considering the RX 480 already draws a hefty 160W? That would need serious architectual improvements.

Well, we know Vega has 4096 stream processors, that's 77% more stream processors than RX 480. So assuming Vega has the same clock rate as RX 480, Vega would be 9.1 teraflops, a 77% improvement over RX 480, not a 2x improvement. However, a pure flops comparison doesn't tell you much, because AMD claims that Vega has further architectural improvements over Polaris. It's also possible that Vega will be clocked higher than Rx480, so it is possible for Vega to double RX 480 in flops. Power consumption could be a concern though, it's very unlikely at this point that Vega power consumption will be anywhere near GTX 1080 or even the eventual 1080ti and next Titan, we could be looking at near Fury X power consumption.

Oh yeah, not I recall I've seen Vega rumoured to have 4096 stream processors. But hasn't Fury X also got 4096 stream processors though and is clocked over 1Ghz? And yet Vega is supposed to be 60% faster than it? I don't follow. That would require architectural improvements out of this world.

Personally I don't mind Fury X power use, unless I buy two and do crossfire. Which I likely won't since one Vega GPU probably will cost $650 or something.



Slimebeast said:

Oh yeah, not I recall I've seen Vega rumoured to have 4096 stream processors. But hasn't Fury X also got 4096 stream processors though and is clocked over 1Ghz? And yet Vega is supposed to be 60% faster than it? I don't follow. That would require architectural improvements out of this world.

Personally I don't mind Fury X power use, unless I buy two and do crossfire. Which I likely won't since one Vega GPU probably will cost $650 or something.

I heard rumors the Vega is produced at TSMC in 16nm, like the 10XX Nvidia chips, so maybe it can clock at 1.6GHz+ like those chips