By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Is becoming a vegetarian/vegan worth it?

Well, i didn't read anything posted but the OP but I'm talking from experience. If your goal is to eat healthier being a vegetarian isn't a requirement, since loads of stuff from animals can be healthier than their vegetal counterparts. Likr using pig fat to cook instead of vegetal oil. Vegetarians tends to think more about what they eat, but if you arent eatimg meat and indulge in french fries, fat cheese, candies and over processed food it isn't be any healthier than meat. You can be very healthy with both diets, and very unhealthy too.



Around the Network
invetedlotus123 said:
Well, i didn't read anything posted but the OP but I'm talking from experience. If your goal is to eat healthier being a vegetarian isn't a requirement, since loads of stuff from animals can be healthier than their vegetal counterparts. Likr using pig fat to cook instead of vegetal oil. Vegetarians tends to think more about what they eat, but if you arent eatimg meat and indulge in french fries, fat cheese, candies and over processed food it isn't be any healthier than meat. You can be very healthy with both diets, and very unhealthy too.

Do you have a citation for your claim that cooking (frying?) in pig fat is healthier than vegetable oil?  Also, what vegetable oil (as they have different health and nutrition profiles)?  I'd add, that I'm not sure cooking/frying with any kind of oil is especially healthy.  I don't add oils to my food at all.  I do eat at restaurants from time to time, and there are probably some oils added to that food, but that's one of the reasons why I rarely eat at restaurants.  Here's a video on the topic (with a long list of citations in the comments for all of its claims):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbtwwZP4Yfs

I agree that a person can be unhealthy on any diet, and that it's possible to be healthy on several of them.  Healthy varies by degrees, though.  I don't think that it's true to say that all diets have the ability to offer an equal level of health in their respective best-case scenarios.  Eating a whole food plant-based diet may offer greater health than any other single dietary option.  There is a growing body of research that suggests as much, and it'll be interesting to see if the research continues to trend in that direction.



scrapking said:
invetedlotus123 said:
Well, i didn't read anything posted but the OP but I'm talking from experience. If your goal is to eat healthier being a vegetarian isn't a requirement, since loads of stuff from animals can be healthier than their vegetal counterparts. Likr using pig fat to cook instead of vegetal oil. Vegetarians tends to think more about what they eat, but if you arent eatimg meat and indulge in french fries, fat cheese, candies and over processed food it isn't be any healthier than meat. You can be very healthy with both diets, and very unhealthy too.

Do you have a citation for your claim that cooking (frying?) in pig fat is healthier than vegetable oil?  Also, what vegetable oil (as they have different health and nutrition profiles)?  I'd add, that I'm not sure cooking/frying with any kind of oil is especially healthy.  I don't add oils to my food at all.  I do eat at restaurants from time to time, and there are probably some oils added to that food, but that's one of the reasons why I rarely eat at restaurants.  Here's a video on the topic (with a long list of citations in the comments for all of its claims):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbtwwZP4Yfs

I agree that a person can be unhealthy on any diet, and that it's possible to be healthy on several of them.  Healthy varies by degrees, though.  I don't think that it's true to say that all diets have the ability to offer an equal level of health in their respective best-case scenarios.  Eating a whole food plant-based diet may offer greater health than any other single dietary option.  There is a growing body of research that suggests as much, and it'll be interesting to see if the research continues to trend in that direction.

Most of my material is in portuguese, but I`ve found this article in English. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3176558/It-s-healthier-cook-LARD-sunflower-oil-Extraordinary-experiment-shows-ve-told-cooking-oils-wrong.html  The reason why pig fat, or lard, is better than most vegetal oils is because it has no added conservatives and vegetal oil has to go through severe modificantios to arrive the supermarket. And is possible to be very heatlhy on a meat based diet, Atkins diet proved wrong this idea that fat and red meat are necessarily unhealthy. And our body NEEDS fat, a friend of the family that is a gynecologist explained us that many women are having hormonal problems for not eating enough fat. An eating lifestyle i like a lot is Paleo Low-Carb. And whole plant-based diet can be very healthy or not, it all comes for how much you reasearch and applies in your eating habits, just like any diet. The thing is most vegetarians tend to know a lot more and do a lot more research about nutrition than meat lovers, so we tend to believe the vegetarian lifestyle in itself is healthier than eating meat, when it`s not quite the case. I eat a lot of egg yolks, meat, cook with lard and etc, and I`m actually really healthy according to my exams.



And there other things wich the animal counterpart is better. Butter is better than margarine, Soy Milk can cause some problems, mainly in men, Tofu is a very controversial food on a healthy perspective ( and it`s horrible for the taste).



scrapking said:
curl-6 said:

In today's world, it's almost impossible to completely separate one's self from the killing of animals. Even if you're vegan, you're likely still using countless products derived from animals; plastics, dyes, shampoo/conditioner, cosmetics, vitamin supplements, textiles, rubber, shaving cream, deodorant, perfume, paint...

Also, in order to grow plant crops, natural habitat is destroyed and pest animals are shot and poisoned.[...]

With research, it's relatively easy to avoid all of those animal-infused products.  Product labelling is getting better all the time, too.

And the fact that growing plant crops destroys natural habitat, etc., is one of the strongest arguments in favour of going vegan.  Do you think the majority of the animals people eat are roaming free?  Nope, they're eating farmed food.  Wheat, corn, soy, you name it.  60-80% of deforestation of the Amazon rainforest is because of animal agriculture.  45% of ice-free land is devoted to animal agriculture.  A third of the world's grain goes to feeding livestock.  I could go on.  70 billion land-based food animals are killed every year (and that doesn't even include seafood).  So, yeah, your concerns are a strong argument for people going vegan.  Thank you for sharing them!  :)

No offense, but I find it extremely hard to believe that you don't own or consume anything at all in which production involves the harming of animals. Even a vegan diet involves crops and pest control. The computer or phone you are using now probably has some plastic or adhesive derived from an animal.

Personally, I'm okay with animals being killed to support my way of life. It may be politically incorrect to say so, but I don't place an enormous amount of value on the life of a cow or a chicken.



Around the Network

IMO It's not worth it, you might live an extra couple of years but it's no fun being a herbivore. Tastey food is one of lifes great pleasures, don't deny yourself.



Shadow1980 said:

I didn't rewrite a damn thing you wrote. I excised stuff that I wasn't going to reply to, but I didn't manipulate what you wrote to change its context or meaning. If you're gonna cop that attitude then I'm not interesting in continuing this conversation. I made my point anyway: as far as anyone can tell, for an average person a properly balanced diet is fine regardless of whether or not it has meat in it. End of discussion. You have a nice day.

When you cut down a quote, I think it's important to indicate that you do so.  I do so by adding [...] wherever I cut down the quote.  I'm not trying to cop an attitude, I'm attempting to communicate that indicating when a quote is cut down is actually really important for other readers who might be jumping into a discussion part way.  You seem to think it's irrelevant, and I think it's very important.

I disputed several of your points, so I don't see it as being made, but you're welcome to discontinue attempting to prove it if that is your choice.  And saying"End of discussion" is silly when medical and nutriotional science is constantly expanding.  My opinion is based on my reading of current medical and nutritional science, and is open to changing as the science changes.



Metroid33slayer said:

IMO It's not worth it, you might live an extra couple of years but it's no fun being a herbivore. Tastey food is one of lifes great pleasures, don't deny yourself.

There's fun, and then there's fun.  People tend to associate being decrepit with old age.  But that association is relatively new, and is predominantly diet and lifestyle related.  So not only may you live a shorter life as an omnivore (there's research to back that assertion up), you may also have more pain, less energy, and a generally poorer quality of life.  So you may be trading moments of bliss for years of discomfort.



invetedlotus123 said:
And there other things wich the animal counterpart is better. Butter is better than margarine, Soy Milk can cause some problems, mainly in men, Tofu is a very controversial food on a healthy perspective ( and it`s horrible for the taste).

I agree on tofu, I don't like it and I don't eat it.  It's a processed food, and doesn't belong in a whole food plant-based diet.  Soy milk problems are over-stated for most people, though.  The argument is that it has estrogen-like properties.  Of course, dairy cows need to be kept perpetually pregnant (so that they keep lactating).  Modern dairy cows are pregnant 10 months of the year.  Unfortunately, in the name of the almight dollar, most dairy farms also milk the cows when they're pregnant, meaning dairy products are full of ACTUAL estrogen.  So soy milk should be struck off your list, as actual milk (and the heightened diabetes risk that comes with it) is way worse.  But almond milk is healthier than either.

That leaves butter is better than margarine.  And I'd argue both of them are pretty terrible, with it being the choice between punched in the face or kicked in the balls.  ;)  I wouldn't recommend anyone consume either of them.  I'd use a light dusting of water, followed up by a sprinkling of nutrional yeast, as an alternative.  Nutritional yeast has a cheesy flavour and is surprisingly yummy.  I was honestly utterly shocked at how good it tastes.



curl-6 said:
scrapking said:

With research, it's relatively easy to avoid all of those animal-infused products.  Product labelling is getting better all the time, too.

And the fact that growing plant crops destroys natural habitat, etc., is one of the strongest arguments in favour of going vegan.  Do you think the majority of the animals people eat are roaming free?  Nope, they're eating farmed food.  Wheat, corn, soy, you name it.  60-80% of deforestation of the Amazon rainforest is because of animal agriculture.  45% of ice-free land is devoted to animal agriculture.  A third of the world's grain goes to feeding livestock.  I could go on.  70 billion land-based food animals are killed every year (and that doesn't even include seafood).  So, yeah, your concerns are a strong argument for people going vegan.  Thank you for sharing them!  :)

No offense, but I find it extremely hard to believe that you don't own or consume anything at all in which production involves the harming of animals. Even a vegan diet involves crops and pest control. The computer or phone you are using now probably has some plastic or adhesive derived from an animal.

Personally, I'm okay with animals being killed to support my way of life. It may be politically incorrect to say so, but I don't place an enormous amount of value on the life of a cow or a chicken.

Re-read my quote.  Nowhere do I say that I don't own or consume anything at all in which the production involved the harming of animals.  I have many things I've owned since before I was particularly concerned with this topic, and have possibly unknowingly purchased some since.  I'm not trying to say I'm perfect, as I ain't perfect.  I'm so imperfect, I just typed "ain't"!  ;)  I do strive to be constantly better.  And by better, I mean working to bringing my actions more in alignment with my beliefs.  So it's not about me making myself better than someone else, it's about making myself better according to my own standards.  I respect the fact that others have other standards.  As such I've almost entirely kept ethics out of this discussion, as it's not for me to tell people what to believe.  I have kept my comments almost entirely to correcting (what I believe to be) misinformation.  If people are to make informed decisions, they need the correct info.