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Forums - General Discussion - Is becoming a vegetarian/vegan worth it?

HoloDust said:
Eagle367 said:

Your last point about suffering makes me angry because you also "torture and kill" plants brutally for vegan diets. You chop them up rip them apart just because no blood does not mean a plant's life is any worth more than an animal. If you don't want to kill then eat only fruits and without harming the seeds.Vegans also participate in killing and 'murdering' living beings. Stop being self righteous you kill to eat like any animal. Only plants are exempt from this because they are producers. Tell me are plants not living also. This is in no way a valid argument for being vegan and it is irritating as hell when vegans assume so. According to your own words you also torture and murder plants. Deal with it

This is very valid point in "animal killing" discussion - as someone who went vegetarian in my early 20's (I'm in mid 40s now), when people were asking me why I did it I was telling them that I don't feel comfortable with killing animals, as in me, personally, and as in animals, not living beings per se. I would still kill animal in wilderness if there was nothing else to eat, but I just don't have to in current world, so I just skip that part.

On the other side, I'm perfectly comfortable with ripping a plant from the ground any time of day to eat - I guess it's our inherent anthropocentric natures  that makes us feel more comfortable with killing plants than animals, some people just accept that as part of themselves, others don't.

But don't say murder and torture. Eating meat is in our nature just look at our anatomy. If killing animals is torture and cruel and murder then so is plants. I have seen vegans act self righteous and they think they are doing something humanitarian or great or fantastic when they don't eat animals. You can eat grass for all I care but don't act superior because of that. Just a reality check that technically we torture plants a hell of a lot more than we do animals and we are fine with that so the animal murder part is all in your heads and I am proud not to be a part of this arrogance and eating meat is also healthy if taken in the right dosage. A meat eater can be just as much healthy and even more than vegans, so stop with this self service garbage you people have going in

Sorry for the hard language but this behavior makes me furious and mad as hell. I am human and hence eat meat and plant because humans as a species is omnivores.



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aLkaLiNE said:

I wouldn't do it, there are certainly other just as effective ways to change your diet in a positive way.
What I would recommend ~
Drink a gallon of water throughout each day. This alone will do wonders for your skin, your hair, your teeth, how much energy you have... Everything.

And then, start cutting out gluten from your diet. Swap out junk foods for berries and fruit, and go look into what super foods are such as kale or spinach.

- microwaves are a no no. Your scrambling the DNA of anything that's out in their and most of the nutrients you could otherwise get are destroyed. In fact I think you lose around 70% of somethings nutritional value after cooking it due to breaking down certain fatty chains and what not.

- try weaning yourself off fake sugars, anything that says sucrose or glucose is bad.


I also personally feel that it's just much better for your body to eat vegetables raw and uncooked (but washed).

With just that small amount of advice theres no reason you'd need to go vegetarian.

One gallon of water is on the high side, it would be suitable for a fairly big person living in a warm climate, or moving about a good deal in summer in temperate regions. You get a lot of water through food as well. Now, during summer, on days when I work out, I consume about 2 liters of water during a 1.5 hour training session and then another 1-1.5 litres of liquid the rest of the day, and I'm 6'4" and weigh 240 pounds and have a much higher need for water and liquids than most. My urine is almost always only slightly colored, which is among the primary indicators that you're getting enough fluids, my skin is also healthy, as is my hair.

As for gluten; as long as you don't have celiac disease, there is very, very little in the way of scientific backing for removing gluten from your diet just for the hell of it, but reducing the intake of wheat may be a smart choice since it's not the healthiest grain to consume, especially in large quantities. But the whole "gluten is bad for everyone in any amount" motto is largely created by the industries who sustain themselves on selling gluten-free produce and foodstuffs and there would be no proper health benefit to removing it completely unless there's an actual allergy.

Your microwave theory is topsy-turvy; microwaves are actually better at maintaining and storing nutrients than other forms of heating, mostly due the smaller need for liquids and the overall short timespan of the heating process. As for "scrambling DNA", that's just a weird thing to say since microwaves are not bio-engineers who splice sequences, nor are they evolutionary measures or gene therapy, I don't even understand where you heard such a thing.

As for the OP: mankind is herbivore, we have enzymes that break down protein chains from animalistic sources a lot better, we have a digestive system that needs vitamin B and bodily functions such as healing wounds and maintaining tendons and other, essential structures of our bodies are greatly helped by things like collagen, which is abundant in meat sources. We also have canines and heavy maulers in our mouths and the most powerful jaw muscles of any animal relative to their size and function. It's a biological fact that we are meant to eat all sorts of food, and most vegetarians and vegans need to eat a slew of vitamins and minerals on the side to maintain healthy storages of essentials in their bodies. As for the environmental argument; it seems reasonable at first glance, until you realize that per-calorie worth of vegetables is lower compared to the carbon footprint and producing massive amounts of crops require immense landmass, tending and, inevitable at such a grand scale; widespread use of pesticides and other chemicals (100% eco is simply not possible on a huge scale), not to mention the potential disaster should the weather not play along if a larger percentage of the population become a lot more dependent on vegetables and fruit.

As for the moral part; it's probably the best argument of the lot since it's both one with merit and one that is more subjective and justifiable. However; think about this, in order to grow huge crops, you'd need to slaughter a lot of animals to keep them from ruining crops and vegetation, you would also need to cultivate a lot more land, which would decrease sizes of habitats and biotopes for countless organisms; that means evicting entire species and murdering a bunch of animals simply to prevent them from eathing your food, that's not really any more logical or moral than slaughtering and then eating. Killing an animal for food makes more sense than killing it to save crops, from most point of view's anyway.
Besides; even without all this, there's still the conundrum of biological facts like plant consumption, plants and vegetables sustain themselves on soil, soil is enrichened by bacteria and dead tissue from, you gussed it, animals and other organisms, which means that on a spiritual and moral level, you can't really avoid consuming animals in some form or another, no matter what you do.
Poor animal husbandry and terrible breeding/living conditions are a real issue, one that I myself am concerned about, coming from farmlands and growing up on and near farms, the huge meat industry, and especially chicken breeding, is disgusting. I actually largely avoid chicken, and if I do buy it, I do it mostly from local, small scale farms, it costs quite a bit more but it tastes better (stress can be "tasted" in meat in some cases) and is better for your conscience.

Want to be a vegetarian or a vegan? Fine by me, but don't get stuck in the swamps of moral and health arguments that are either dubious, highly subjective or downright false; it's a personal choice and should be considered as such, and only such. Should you choose it, good for you, I support all vegetarian friends, as well as all my meat-eating friends.



Eagle367 said:
HoloDust said:

This is very valid point in "animal killing" discussion - as someone who went vegetarian in my early 20's (I'm in mid 40s now), when people were asking me why I did it I was telling them that I don't feel comfortable with killing animals, as in me, personally, and as in animals, not living beings per se. I would still kill animal in wilderness if there was nothing else to eat, but I just don't have to in current world, so I just skip that part.

On the other side, I'm perfectly comfortable with ripping a plant from the ground any time of day to eat - I guess it's our inherent anthropocentric natures  that makes us feel more comfortable with killing plants than animals, some people just accept that as part of themselves, others don't.

But don't say murder and torture. Eating meat is in our nature just look at our anatomy. If killing animals is torture and cruel and murder then so is plants. I have seen vegans act self righteous and they think they are doing something humanitarian or great or fantastic when they don't eat animals. You can eat grass for all I care but don't act superior because of that. Just a reality check that technically we torture plants a hell of a lot more than we do animals and we are fine with that so the animal murder part is all in your heads and I am proud not to be a part of this arrogance and eating meat is also healthy if taken in the right dosage. A meat eater can be just as much healthy and even more than vegans, so stop with this self service garbage you people have going in

Sorry for the hard language but this behavior makes me furious and mad as hell. I am human and hence eat meat and plant because humans as a species is omnivores.

Yeah, there's always tedious and self-righteous people on both sides and honestly I don't give a rats ass about any of them. I do it cause I, personally, have more sympathy for animals than plants, but I've never tried to convince anyone my POV is better then theirs - acutally, very short after I became vegeterian I got tired of explaining it, so I just started saying I don't like meat. Period.



Farsala said:
I could never go Vegetarian or Vegan as it is simply too expensive. I have always been a scrawny dude but I eat a lot of food and barely gain any weight. Here in cow land meat is quality and cheap, while some fruit is seasonal and often expensive.

I also love almost all food equally, so giving up meat would be the same as giving up all vegetables or all fruit etc.

Animal carnivores would eat me or a cow so I see no problem in eating them or a cow. Eventually I will die and be eaten by some organism. (Likely bacteria)

If you live in the states it's no more costly than a regular meat eating diet. Unless you buy all the fake meats which are expensive or you're current diet consist mostly of McDonalds dollar menu.  Grains, rice, beans, legumes, lentils are dirt cheap and you make ton of different dishes with them. Also fruit veggies when bought in season are pretty cheap too.  I only spend about $120-$150/month on groceries, and it's a ton of food. I eat around 3000-3500 calories/day so it's i'm never starving. Problem is most people don't know how too shop efficiently and spend way more money than they need too. 



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FIT_Gamer said:
Farsala said:
I could never go Vegetarian or Vegan as it is simply too expensive. I have always been a scrawny dude but I eat a lot of food and barely gain any weight. Here in cow land meat is quality and cheap, while some fruit is seasonal and often expensive.

I also love almost all food equally, so giving up meat would be the same as giving up all vegetables or all fruit etc.

Animal carnivores would eat me or a cow so I see no problem in eating them or a cow. Eventually I will die and be eaten by some organism. (Likely bacteria)

If you live in the states it's no more costly than a regular meat eating diet. Unless you buy all the fake meats which are expensive or you're current diet consist mostly of McDonalds dollar menu.  Grains, rice, beans, legumes, lentils are dirt cheap and you make ton of different dishes with them. Also fruit veggies when bought in season are pretty cheap too.  I only spend about $120-$150/month on groceries, and it's a ton of food. I eat around 3000-3500 calories/day so it's i'm never starving. Problem is most people don't know how too shop efficiently and spend way more money than they need too. 

I eat everything and my budget is often $50-100/ month. I have to buy a lot of frozen food, potatoes, canned food, and pasta. I used to get Mcdonalds dollar menu as a treat from the mundane, as I don't have proper cooking ingredients, tools, or even skills to make good meeals.

I don't keep track of my calories but I am guessing somedays would be small like 2000 and some 5000.



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Eagle367 said:
hershel_layton said:

I've watched cowspiracy. It was a great movie to watch.

 

Also, curious, but are you still a vegan?

Your last point about suffering makes me angry because you also "torture and kill" plants brutally for vegan diets. You chop them up rip them apart just because no blood does not mean a plant's life is any worth more than an animal. If you don't want to kill then eat only fruits and without harming the seeds.Vegans also participate in killing and 'murdering' living beings. Stop being self righteous you kill to eat like any animal. Only plants are exempt from this because they are producers. Tell me are plants not living also. This is in no way a valid argument for being vegan and it is irritating as hell when vegans assume so. According to your own words you also torture and murder plants. Deal with it

Plants don't have brains (or organs) or feel pain in the sense the species in the kingdom animalia do. They aren't sentient.



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TechnoHobbit said:
Eagle367 said:

Your last point about suffering makes me angry because you also "torture and kill" plants brutally for vegan diets. You chop them up rip them apart just because no blood does not mean a plant's life is any worth more than an animal. If you don't want to kill then eat only fruits and without harming the seeds.Vegans also participate in killing and 'murdering' living beings. Stop being self righteous you kill to eat like any animal. Only plants are exempt from this because they are producers. Tell me are plants not living also. This is in no way a valid argument for being vegan and it is irritating as hell when vegans assume so. According to your own words you also torture and murder plants. Deal with it

Plants don't have brains (or organs) or feel pain in the sense the species in the kingdom animalia do. They aren't sentient.

That's just stupid reasoning. We don't get to decide which life is precious if you are a vegan then say you are because you feel weird eating meat don't say you are so much better then meat eaters because you care about the lives of other species because you don't. You just eat less species then most people do. I eat meat and I eat other species to live just like every other animal and I am not ashamed of eating goats or cows or chickens like you are not ashamed of eating carrots onions and leaves of different plants. Yes we cut their throats off and chop them up and I don't care like you don't care when leaves from plants are ripped off their flowers torn down when they are cut down and chopped up but I am against senselessly killing animals for  hunting games just as much as I am against senselessly killing forests of plants. Especially the endangered ones from both kingdoms. 



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Eagle367 said:

That's just stupid reasoning. We don't get to decide which life is precious if you are a vegan then say you are because you feel weird eating meat don't say you are so much better then meat eaters because you care about the lives of other species because you don't. You just eat less species then most people do. I eat meat and I eat other species to live just like every other animal and I am not ashamed of eating goats or cows or chickens like you are not ashamed of eating carrots onions and leaves of different plants. Yes we cut their throats off and chop them up and I don't care like you don't care when leaves from plants are ripped off their flowers torn down when they are cut down and chopped up but I am against senselessly killing animals for  hunting games just as much as I am against senselessly killing forests of plants. Especially the endangered ones from both kingdoms. 

The level of ignorance and stupidity in this post is worrying. If you haven't yet do the world a favor and get a Vasectomy. 

 

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