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Forums - Sales Discussion - UK Charts - week ending June 25th 2016

trasharmdsister12 said:

Mazzy said:

 According to Rule 9:

Spam, which is multiple replies in a row without any substance and replies that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, is not allowed.

Per rule 9, that is not spam as it is not multiple replies in a row, nor is it unrelated to the topic.

Also, according to Rule 10:

  • You have the right to express your opinion, as long as it is relevant, justified, and presented in a civil manner. If you want to discuss something other than the thread topic, make your own thread.
My opinion is relevant as this is a discussion about game sales, I justified it by saying why it is disappointing regarding the AAA scene and AAA game sales swelling and niche and indie games struggling, and I presented it in a simple civil manner. If anything, the statements ITT such as "Great to see Uncharted 4 doing well!" are actually not justified. 

Now I would like another moderator who doesn't have a history of personal issues with me explain to me how this is against the forum rules, otherwise I will continue to do it. 

According to Rule 9:

Explain and justify your opinions. If you have nothing to add to a topic, then don't post at all. Similarly, even if it's well defended, repeating your opinion multiple times is also spamming. Make your point and move on to your next idea or point.

You have repeated your opinion regarding Uncharted 4 and your discontent of its success (while simultaneously trying to undermine its success in other threads) a multitude of times:

- http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7958505
- http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7933389
- http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7933335

And that's just doing a quick scan of your last 2-3 weeks of activity.

As for your defense of Rule 10, you could've used a number of games. Doom, Overwatch, GTA V; All the product of the AAA machine you have an issue with. Furthermore, the point could have been made without singling out any game. The post you made earlier regarding Odin Sphere could have stood on its own merits, and that would've strengthened it given the community's perception of you.

The point you were trying to make may have been spawned by the sales results, but the point itself has little to do with sales. It has to do with the industry at large being unsupportive of niche titles that you believe deserve more attention. By that metric I deem your opinion in that post irrelevant to the topic. As Rule 10 states "If you want to discuss something other than the thread topic, make your own thread."

Given I hardly ever visit the site anymore, you can be sure we hold no previous rapport or history of personal issues. In fact, in the grand scheme of things I even agree with your opinion that Uncharted as a series is a poor example for the industry to follow and attempt to emulate. But that is an opinion that I'd make a thread of explaining why I believe so and have one grand discussion. I would not constantly bring it up in pseudo related threads because that effort is fruitless in getting across your point; even if it's a good one. It serves only to irritate, as you've no doubt observed. Yet you keep doing it despite being advised otherwise by people who aren't out to get you. As mods, we don't like getting our hammers dirty (well... not our ban hammers anyways). We just want to come here and hang out and discuss video games like the rest of you. But if peoples' jimmies are needlessly being rustled we have to step in.

So I advise you, not as an all powerful, hammer swinging overlord, but as a fellow fan of video games - Stop it. Attempt to discuss the points you're trying to make without constantly riling people up. Your point about Odin Sphere is a great one and one that does need to be discussed at large in the community. A and AA development are at an all time low but these are the games that go on to become AAA. Without them, the industry suffers. Do your part shining light on those games by making threads about them and showing their merits. You can totally do that WITHOUT attacking anything.

But if you're going to interpret the rules in that manner, then like 90% of the VGC community needs banning. So many people say "unrelated" things in sales threads if that is the definition of unrelated. Similarly, a lot of people go around repeating their opinions in threads.



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Jranation said:
YES!
Nice to see TMS#FE Beating Mario and Sonic!!!!!

^ this.

Mario & sonic - Rio 2016 look really bad (imo) and shouldnt sell just because of their brand name power.

I much rather see a new IP like TMS, that actually looks like a great game, sell more.



CGI-Quality said:
Teeqoz said:

But if you're going to interpret the rules in that manner, then like 90% of the VGC community needs banning. So many people say "unrelated" things in sales threads if that is the definition of unrelated. Similarly, a lot of people go around repeating their opinions in threads.

This mostly depends on quantity and history, though. Going off-topic isn't so much of a problem if it doesn't become a habit. Very much like presenting an opinion about a specific topic.

If you consider Mazzy's original comment in this thread as off-topic, then almost all posts on the forum are off-topic. It was directly related to the sales performance of different titles that he saw in the chart.



CGI-Quality said:
Teeqoz said:

If you consider Mazzy's original comment in this thread as off-topic, then almost all posts on the forum are off-topic. It was directly related to the sales performance of different titles that he saw in the chart.

I wasn't talking about his post. It was in general.

Okay, but then you agree that his post wasn't off-topic to begin with?



CGI-Quality said:
Teeqoz said:

Okay, but then you agree that his post wasn't off-topic to begin with?

In regards to me, the issue with his post wasn't about it being off-topic. Regarding the mod team, Trash already covered what the issue was there. 

So, let's all move on from the discussion, as everything that needed to be covered has been.

In that case, was it about flaming/trolling? If the Mazzy's post was trolling flaming, then almost all posts on the forum are also flaming. Is it just because his opinion is negative that he has to justify it a lot more than those posting a quick positive opinion like "Good to see Uncharted 4 doing well"?

I don't really agree that everything that needed to be covered has been covered. I mean, I'd love to take the discussion elsewhere, but there really isn't a place on VGC to do so after the mod thread was closed.



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Forza Motorsports 6 has very good legs even though nothing was released this month I'm hoping it gets at least a couple more car packs. Another DLC track would be nice also.



Teeqoz said:
CGI-Quality said:

In regards to me, the issue with his post wasn't about it being off-topic. Regarding the mod team, Trash already covered what the issue was there. 

So, let's all move on from the discussion, as everything that needed to be covered has been.

In that case, was it about flaming/trolling? If the Mazzy's post was trolling flaming, then almost all posts on the forum are also flaming. Is it just because his opinion is negative that he has to justify it a lot more than those posting a quick positive opinion like "Good to see Uncharted 4 doing well"?

I don't really agree that everything that needed to be covered has been covered. I mean, I'd love to take the discussion elsewhere, but there really isn't a place on VGC to do so after the mod thread was closed.

The mods see being negative about a game or platform as problematic, even if it is the exact same format as the positive posts. Saying "Good to see PS4 selling so well" or "Good to see Game X selling so well" is fine, and really look at any of the PS4 milestone threads and practically all the posts are variations of this and is just generally posters cheerleading about sales without a whole lot of discussion (but obviously, since this is a sales forum, these threads should still be made), but when you say "disappointing to see Game X selling so well" apparently that is spam even if you justify your position (which, mind you, the positive posters are generally not required to do in my experience). Personally, I've been positive many times about games selling well, but as soon as a game that I think really doesn't deserve those sales because of its quality, or what it stands for, or the trends it creates, or simply because I don't enjoy it, I receive flak and have to tread lightly due to threat of moderation. 

I suppose one benefit of having broad, loose forum rules is that you can choose what you what to moderate that you don't personally agree with, while letting similar formatted posts that you agree with go. It is also beneficial to have a forum rule about backseat moderation, so if users complain about these situations, they can be banned for backseat moderation.

At the end of the day, it's a very difficult subject, and there are many ways to go about it, each with their pros and cons. And really it's up to the admin to find which works best with their vision for how the forums should operate. 



CGI-Quality said:
Teeqoz said:

In that case, was it about flaming/trolling? If the Mazzy's post was trolling flaming, then almost all posts on the forum are also flaming. Is it just because his opinion is negative that he has to justify it a lot more than those posting a quick positive opinion like "Good to see Uncharted 4 doing well"?

I don't really agree that everything that needed to be covered has been covered. I mean, I'd love to take the discussion elsewhere, but there really isn't a place on VGC to do so after the mod thread was closed.

In regards to this topic, yes, everything has been covered. It's no longer about UK sales, but a post. That is why we can continue this discussion, but not here.

Then where?



JRPGfan said:
Jranation said:
YES!
Nice to see TMS#FE Beating Mario and Sonic!!!!!

^ this.

Mario & sonic - Rio 2016 look really bad (imo) and shouldnt sell just because of their brand name power.

I much rather see a new IP like TMS, that actually looks like a great game, sell more.

Yes! Just like with Splatoon and SMM. I hope fans shows Nintendo that we want new stuff! More crossovers as well! 



Pocky Lover Boy! 

Chris Hu said:
Forza Motorsports 6 has very good legs even though nothing was released this month I'm hoping it gets at least a couple more car packs. Another DLC track would be nice also.

Forza 6 impresses 9 months after release even when the next Forza game was announced. Go Forza 6!



Proud to be a Californian.