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Forums - Sales Discussion - UK Charts - week ending June 25th 2016

TheBlackNaruto on 27 June 2016

Wow Mazzy you are still going strong about Uncharted 4 yet you have not done this for any other game. I think that is the issue here....you downplay or talk bad about UC4 in almost any thread you go into. Now look there is nothing wrong with not liking the game but come on you have to let it go man. It comes off as the rules state spamming and trolling to CONTINUOUSLY do it in multiple threads.

Sorry for the off topic comment:

OT
Look at Doom go! And ND she be proud of UC4! It is holding strong!



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

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DirtyP2002 on 27 June 2016

Mazzy is right though. Nothing wrong with his posts.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

TheBlackNaruto on 27 June 2016
DirtyP2002 said:
Mazzy is right though. Nothing wrong with his posts.

See if he didn't do it in EVERY thread he goes into I would agree. But in literally almost every thread he posts in he somehow makes a reference to UC4 from not meeting sales expectations and being a disappointment to Sony and ND. To then saying he never really had sales epectations, to then saying can we agree now that it did not meet sells expectations, to the game is a disaapointment(which is fine and is his opinion after all), to it is sad that the game is selling well....

But to go through and through like that shifting over and over it just seems plretty much like spam and trolling which is against the rules. Sometimes not even giving reasons why then moving it to something else to keep it going. It just seems like he has a personal grudge against the game. Personally I would respect it more if he made a thread about UC4 and how he felt instead of going into every thread he can downplaying it and talking bad about it. That would make more sense.

For instance I am not a Halo fan but I would never go in multiple threads saying ti is a dissappointment and it is sad that it has sold like it had.....that would clearly be trolling. I am not a big Mario fan anymore didn't really care for Galaxy 1 or 2 but I have never gone in threads doing anything he has because I KNOW that I would be considered trolling. I think that is the core issue with what he is doing. He is only doing it to UC4 just that ONE game. If he did it for all AAA games okay I feel you BUT he ONLY does it for UC4.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

Mazzy on 27 June 2016
CGI-Quality said:

"Disappointing that games like Uncharted 4 top the charts, while Odin Sphere barely scrapes in at 23" and "I don't like the AAA model and where it's going, frankly it's disgusting. "

Show me the justification for this, then we can begin to talk about anyone having something "personal" with you. What do those two games have to do with each other (yes, sales talk)? Why is it bad for Uncharted to do well? According to who? By what metric? Who/what does it violate? How does the industry suffer? What's so wrong with the "AAA model"?

Ermm... that's the justification for it. It saddens me to see AAA games continue to swell in budget and the top few publishers making up the vast majority of gaming sales while indie games and niche games struggle for a small fraction of the sales. They are both games in the chart, and that's why I'm comparing them; Uncharted 4 is the poster child of this AAA bloat, and it is literally PlayStation's biggest ever marketing campaign behind it. Then you see games like Odin Sphere, a great, refreshing game and yet it bombs spectacularly, only charting at #23 in a slow week like this where #6 is a mere 4k sales.

I never said it was "bad" that Uncharted 4 is selling like it is, I said it was disappointing, which is my personal opinion and I justified why I felt that way. I abhor the AAA model as it stunts innovation. Thank God for crowdfunding and passionate indie devs because otherwise this industry would be stagnate and just be play-it-safe sequels and homogenized shallow AAA experiences. This gen has seen a marked decline in number of game releases, and this AAA model is the major reason for that. Due to increased budgets and marketing, there is no room to take risks or appeal to niches, so the result is mechanically shallow AAA game sequels that play it safe to satisfy investors. It seems the little innovation and variety comes from indies and crowdfunding, but unfortunately, due to budget constraints, they are often limited to certain genres or can't achieve their full vision.

And like I said, this is just recently AAA gaming has become like this. Just recently has it become very homogenized, just recently have game releases on consoles seen a sharp decline, and just recently have the few big publishers continue to swell and comprise the vast majority of the revenue of the revenue. Gaming is a relatively new industry all things considered, and it's being streamlined and industrialized with much of the passion and innovation being stripped in the process. As someone who enjoys games for entertainment rather than business, it's sad to see it, and I hope that niche games continue to sell and crowdfunding continues to allow passionate developers to pursue their goals.

But I don't understand is why I must write this long drawn out explanation, but yet saying "Nice to see Uncharted 4 selling so well" in every single thread is totally fine? What is the double standard for? 



leo-j on 27 June 2016

I'm glad uncharted 4 continues to sell..... hopefully it goes over 10M sales lifetime..... I as a bit shocked to see Sony did not even mention their biggest game/franchise(maybe) at e3



 

mM
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Mazzy on 27 June 2016
CGI-Quality said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Personally I would respect it more if he made a thread about UC4 and how he felt instead of going into every thread he can downplaying it and talking bad about it. That would make more sense.

I'd personally grant it and make sure that it was proetected from an onslaught of attacks, so long as it was presented in a constructive manner and with things to back up absolute statements (such as meeting sales expectations).

But this has nothing to do with sales expectations. You're completely missing my point.



Jranation on 27 June 2016

YES!
Nice to see TMS#FE Beating Mario and Sonic!!!!!



Pocky Lover Boy! 

TheBlackNaruto on 27 June 2016
CGI-Quality said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Personally I would respect it more if he made a thread about UC4 and how he felt instead of going into every thread he can downplaying it and talking bad about it. That would make more sense.

I'd personally grant it and make sure that it was proetected from an onslaught of attacks, so long as it was presented in a constructive manner and with things to back up absolute statements (such as meeting sales expectations).

And I have no issues with Mazzy but his constant attack of UC4 is odd to me. So that's why I would have liked to see a thread made by him with his points and reasoning behind it. Not jsut an attack adn downplay in every other thread. So hopefully he makes it.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

TheBlackNaruto on 27 June 2016
Mazzy said:
CGI-Quality said:

"Disappointing that games like Uncharted 4 top the charts, while Odin Sphere barely scrapes in at 23" and "I don't like the AAA model and where it's going, frankly it's disgusting. "

Show me the justification for this, then we can begin to talk about anyone having something "personal" with you. What do those two games have to do with each other (yes, sales talk)? Why is it bad for Uncharted to do well? According to who? By what metric? Who/what does it violate? How does the industry suffer? What's so wrong with the "AAA model"?

Ermm... that's the justification for it. It saddens me to see AAA games continue to swell in budget and the top few publishers making up the vast majority of gaming sales while indie games and niche games struggle for a small fraction of the sales. They are both games in the chart, and that's why I'm comparing them; Uncharted 4 is the poster child of this AAA bloat, and it is literally PlayStation's biggest ever marketing campaign behind it. Then you see games like Odin Sphere, a great, refreshing game and yet it bombs spectacularly, only charting at #23 in a slow week like this where #6 is a mere 4k sales.

I never said it was "bad" that Uncharted 4 is selling like it is, I said it was disappointing, which is my personal opinion and I justified why I felt that way. I abhor the AAA model as it stunts innovation. Thank God for crowdfunding and passionate indie devs because otherwise this industry would be stagnate and just be play-it-safe sequels and homogenized shallow AAA experiences. This gen has seen a marked decline in number of game releases, and this AAA model is the major reason for that. Due to increased budgets and marketing, there is no room to take risks or appeal to niches, so the result is mechanically shallow AAA game sequels that play it safe to satisfy investors. It seems the little innovation and variety comes from indies and crowdfunding, but unfortunately, due to budget constraints, they are often limited to certain genres or can't achieve their full vision.

And like I said, this is just recently AAA gaming has become like this. Just recently has it become very homogenized, just recently have game releases on consoles seen a sharp decline, and just recently have the few big publishers continue to swell and comprise the vast majority of the revenue of the revenue. Gaming is a relatively new industry all things considered, and it's being streamlined and industrialized with much of the passion and innovation being stripped in the process. As someone who enjoys games for entertainment rather than business, it's sad to see it, and I hope that niche games continue to sell and crowdfunding continues to allow passionate developers to pursue their goals.

But I don't understand is why I must write this long drawn out explanation, but yet saying "Nice to see Uncharted 4 selling so well" in every single thread is totally fine? What is the double standard for? 

There is no double standard Mazzy. You have just been on UC4 since I fist started seeing you post on this site. That is the issue and it has just moved from one thing to the next but it is all about UC4. You have not done this for any other AAA game yet you are complaing about the AAA market in this very post and STILL mentioned no other game outside of UC4. I even understand your point now but your constant attack on UC4 is still odd.

 

EDIT

I see a mod beat me to an explination and even broke it down a lot better than I did.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

Mazzy on 27 June 2016
trasharmdsister12 said:

According to Rule 9:

  • Explain and justify your opinions. If you have nothing to add to a topic, then don't post at all. Similarly, even if it's well defended, repeating your opinion multiple times is also spamming. Make your point and move on to your next idea or point.
You have repeated your opinion regarding Uncharted 4 and your discontent of its success (while simultaneously trying to undermine its success in other threads) a multitude of times:

And that's just doing a quick scan of your last 2-3 weeks of activity. 
As for your defense of Rule 10, you could've used a number of games. Doom, Overwatch, GTA V; All the product of the AAA machine you have an issue with. Furthermore, the point could have been made without singling out any game. The post you made earlier regarding Odin Sphere could have stood on its own merits, and that would've strengthened it given the community's perception of you. 

The point you were trying to make may have been spawned by the sales results, but the point itself has little to do with sales. It has to do with the industry at large being unsupportive of niche titles that you believe deserve more attention. By that metric I deem your opinion in that post irrelevant to the topic. As Rule 10 states "If you want to discuss something other than the thread topic, make your own thread."
Given I hardly ever visit the site anymore, you can be sure we hold no previous rapport or history of personal issues. In fact, in the grand scheme of things I even agree with your opinion that Uncharted as a series is a poor example for the industry to follow and attempt to emulate. But that is an opinion that I'd make a thread of explaining why I believe so and have one grand discussion. I would not constantly bring it up in pseudo related threads because that effort is fruitless in getting across your point; even if it's a good one. It serves only to irritate, as you've no doubt observed. Yet you keep doing it despite being advised otherwise by people who aren't out to get you. As mods, we don't like getting our hammers dirty (well... not our ban hammers anyways). We just want to come here and hang out and discuss video games like the rest of you. But if peoples' jimmies are needlessly being rustled we have to step in. 
So I advise you, not as an all powerful, hammer swinging overlord, but as a fellow fan of video games - Stop it. Attempt to discuss the points you're trying to make without constantly riling people up. Your point about Odin Sphere is a great one and one that does need to be discussed at large in the community. A and AA development are at an all time low but these are the games that go on to become AAA. Without them, the industry suffers. Do your part shining light on those games by making threads about them and showing their merits. You can totally do that WITHOUT attacking anything.

GTAV and DOOM are great games, I think it's great that they do well, although I would hardly say Uncharted 4 is comparable to GTAV in sales, or that DOOM is comparable to Uncharted 4 in sales. I have expressed my disappointment regarding Overwatch's success (or at least I think I have, can't remember). Those previous posts were regarding my personal opinion about Uncharted 4's quality and that's why I said it was disappointing. This thread I was talking about AAA vs niche games and the homogenization of gaming. Not really similar. 

I would like to make a thread discussing what I said ITT, as I belive it is an issue to bring up, and a discussion to be had. Not so much about trying to draw attention to niche games, but having an intelligent discussion on where the industry is heading and how the AAA model will affect the industry. However, CGI now threatens to moderate me next time I bring it up, which I believe (just my opinion) stems from a personal beef he has with me, rather than a desire to uphold the forum rules.

I always support my arguments and will not just leave a trolling one liner just to rile people up and then never respond, but if someone gets upset by my opinions and discussions regarding game sales, I can't control that and they need to have better control of their emotions because I'm just having a civil discussion within the bounds of the rules.