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Forums - General Discussion - Where are the feminists?

For everyone that, for whatever inane reason, thinks feminism is about both men and women (as if the Latin root fem- wasn't enough of a hint):

Egalitarianism.

The term you're describing is Egalitarianism. So please stop being wrong.



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SuaveSocialist said:
setsunatenshi said:

your statement fails to address the fact that:

 

1- there are several types of feminism

2- feminism has several ridiculous claims, like that being such a thing as pathriarchy that actively tries to keep women down

3- egalitarianism

4- if you want a society without different classes of people, you are a communist. (does it apply as well or it's just for feminism?)

 

I could go on, but I think this should suffice 

1.  All types strive for equality; the types just just get more specific in areas to improve or methods to improve them. 
2.  Given their definition of the term it certainly exists (though it is to which extent where arguments can be made for and against) and actually, they argue that it is oppressive to both men and women. 
3.  Certainly a good thing and entirely compatible with, nay. dependent on feminism--for without, a society can never be fully egalitarian.
4.  If you want a society where one of the sexes is a lower class, you are advocating for either a patriarchal or matriarchal society.  I'm not sure what purpose your McCarthyian angle intends to serve here. 

 

Actually, considering that none of your four points have anything to do Teeqoz's statement, I'm not sure what purpose any of them were supposed to serve.  His statement is correct: if you believe the sexes should be treated equally, you are a feminist.

1. no, not all types of feminism even pretend to strive for equality, that is an inane statement. there are plenty of people who would call themselves feminists and actually advocate women supremacy. i don't have any ground to stand here and determine who the 'true feminists' are, so, as I said before, if someone tells me they are a feminist I will take them at their word

2. i have expanded in a later comment on the patriarchy theory, so no, I don't agree it exists in today's western societies. It certainly did exist at some point in time where there was actual discrimination of genders, not anymore, not today. actual discrimination based on gender is in most places punished by law.

3. yes, of course it's a good thing. no, it does not depend on feminism, that is a baseless claim. it's simply a better term someone who actually wants true equality of opportunity for all people. If you need to specify that it's based on gender, you might be saying you're comfortable with discriminating for some other reason (race? religious views? eye color? sports team? nationality?)

4. as stated in further discussion with him, you could see we came to understand exactly what each other's points were on all of this. but to clarify in case you won't read, the comparison was an ad absurdum, showing that it's not fair to tell someone they are a feminist or communist (or whatever else) just because someone agrees with a part of what the entire ideology stands for. feminism is not contained by equality of gender anymore than communism is contained in agreeing with a non class based society. there's a ton more than that.



Is mindblowing the difficulties people have to understand the concept of feminism.

And now turns up that if you belive in equal rights for both genders you are sexually repressed and a virgin, holy shit, VGC never fails to impress me.

You see, feminism was created when men were the clear dominants and women were treated like a 2nd class citizien, so those people that fought for the rights of the women to have equality with men were called feminist, it was a fight for women, that's why it was called feminism, but not because women were better but because they were equal, and nowadays the concept is still the same, a true feminist fight for women rights to be considered equal as men, not better, if some of them do that, then they are doing it wrong, but most feminist I know are not like that at all, feminazis are a minority.

As for the OP, I simply don't get the connection between feminism and what is been exposed, it doesn't look like the reason why that happens has anything to do with any kind of discrimation.



Goodnightmoon said:
Is mindblowing the difficulties people have to understand the concept of feminism.

And now turns up that if you belive in equal rights for both genders you are sexually repressed and a virgin, holy shit, VGC never fails to impress me.

You see, feminism was created when men were the clear dominants and women were treated like a 2nd class citizien, so those people that fought for the rights of the women to have equality with men were called feminist, it was a fight for women, that's why it was called feminism, but not because women were better but because they were equal, and nowadays the concept is still the same, a true feminist fight for women rights to be considered equal as men, not better, if some of them do that, then they are doing it wrong, but most feminist I know are not like that at all, feminazis are a minority.

do you live in saudi arabia? i would totally be a feminist if I was there. In the countries where I have lived so far there is not 1 right men have over women. I could think of a couple of rights women have over men though, doesn't mean i'm a 'meninist' or a 'masculinist'



setsunatenshi said:
Goodnightmoon said:
Is mindblowing the difficulties people have to understand the concept of feminism.

And now turns up that if you belive in equal rights for both genders you are sexually repressed and a virgin, holy shit, VGC never fails to impress me.

You see, feminism was created when men were the clear dominants and women were treated like a 2nd class citizien, so those people that fought for the rights of the women to have equality with men were called feminist, it was a fight for women, that's why it was called feminism, but not because women were better but because they were equal, and nowadays the concept is still the same, a true feminist fight for women rights to be considered equal as men, not better, if some of them do that, then they are doing it wrong, but most feminist I know are not like that at all, feminazis are a minority.

do you live in saudi arabia? i would totally be a feminist if I was there. In the countries where I have lived so far there is not 1 right men have over women. I could think of a couple of rights women have over men though, doesn't mean i'm a 'meninist' or a 'masculinist'

There still some inequality in advanced countries though and is not only about rights but about cultural perception too, we still have prejudices about genders, maybe not you, maybe not me, but there still some out there and feminists don't like it, wich is normal because that is part of the fight.
There are still reason to be feminist in this countries, not a radical one though, I can agree with that.

I have never been active on feminism at all, I can only call myself feminist because I do agree with the concept, but it worries me how people try to demonize a movement that has been so important for our society and is overall positive even if there are some annoying extremists and manhaters, now if you dare to point at anything where women are not treated equally you are called a Social Justice Warrior, a feminazi, a sexually repressed virgin, etc etc

It's concerning.



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Goodnightmoon said:
setsunatenshi said:

do you live in saudi arabia? i would totally be a feminist if I was there. In the countries where I have lived so far there is not 1 right men have over women. I could think of a couple of rights women have over men though, doesn't mean i'm a 'meninist' or a 'masculinist'

There still some inequality in advanced countries though and is not only about rights but about cultural perception too, we still have prejudices about genders, maybe not you, maybe not me, but there still some out there and feminists don't like it, wich is normal because that is part of the fight.
There are still reason to be feminist in this countries, not a radical one though, I can agree with that.

I have never been active on feminism at all, I can only call myself feminist because I do agree with the concept, but it worries me how people try to demonize a movement that has been so important for our society and is overall positive even if there are some annoying extremists and manhaters, now if you dare to point at anything where women are not treated equally you are called a Social Justice Warrior, a feminazi, a sexually repressed virgin, etc etc

It's concerning.

It's Jezebel, MarySue, and Tumblr's fault. There's not a single level-headed feminist among those three sites; just a bunch of manhaters getting each other wound up about news stories (which are often reported by said sites with biased or outright false information). This rubs the average Joe the wrong way AND spreads a radicalized vision of feminism by attacking people rather than including them. 



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Azuren said:
Goodnightmoon said:

There still some inequality in advanced countries though and is not only about rights but about cultural perception too, we still have prejudices about genders, maybe not you, maybe not me, but there still some out there and feminists don't like it, wich is normal because that is part of the fight.
There are still reason to be feminist in this countries, not a radical one though, I can agree with that.

I have never been active on feminism at all, I can only call myself feminist because I do agree with the concept, but it worries me how people try to demonize a movement that has been so important for our society and is overall positive even if there are some annoying extremists and manhaters, now if you dare to point at anything where women are not treated equally you are called a Social Justice Warrior, a feminazi, a sexually repressed virgin, etc etc

It's concerning.

It's Jezebel, MarySue, and Tumblr's fault. There's not a single level-headed feminist among those three sites; just a bunch of manhaters getting each other wound up about news stories (which are often reported by said sites with biased or outright false information). This rubs the average Joe the wrong way AND spreads a radicalized vision of feminism by attacking people rather than including them. 

I agree, I was talking about that with a friend recently, there some really obnoxious feminist getting too much attention that are giving the wrong impression to some people and making them believe that feminsts are a bunch of victimists radicals that think women are the center of the universe. 



setsunatenshi said:
SuaveSocialist said:

1.  All types strive for equality; the types just just get more specific in areas to improve or methods to improve them. 
2.  Given their definition of the term it certainly exists (though it is to which extent where arguments can be made for and against) and actually, they argue that it is oppressive to both men and women. 
3.  Certainly a good thing and entirely compatible with, nay. dependent on feminism--for without, a society can never be fully egalitarian.
4.  If you want a society where one of the sexes is a lower class, you are advocating for either a patriarchal or matriarchal society.  I'm not sure what purpose your McCarthyian angle intends to serve here. 

 

Actually, considering that none of your four points have anything to do Teeqoz's statement, I'm not sure what purpose any of them were supposed to serve.  His statement is correct: if you believe the sexes should be treated equally, you are a feminist.

1. no, not all types of feminism even pretend to strive for equality, that is an inane statement. there are plenty of people who would call themselves feminists and actually advocate women supremacy. i don't have any ground to stand here and determine who the 'true feminists' are, so, as I said before, if someone tells me they are a feminist I will take them at their word

2. i have expanded in a later comment on the patriarchy theory, so no, I don't agree it exists in today's western societies. It certainly did exist at some point in time where there was actual discrimination of genders, not anymore, not today. actual discrimination based on gender is in most places punished by law.

3. yes, of course it's a good thing. no, it does not depend on feminism, that is a baseless claim. it's simply a better term someone who actually wants true equality of opportunity for all people. If you need to specify that it's based on gender, you might be saying you're comfortable with discriminating for some other reason (race? religious views? eye color? sports team? nationality?)

4. as stated in further discussion with him, you could see we came to understand exactly what each other's points were on all of this. but to clarify in case you won't read, the comparison was an ad absurdum, showing that it's not fair to tell someone they are a feminist or communist (or whatever else) just because someone agrees with a part of what the entire ideology stands for. feminism is not contained by equality of gender anymore than communism is contained in agreeing with a non class based society. there's a ton more than that.

1.  If one identifies as a feminist and advocate female supremacy, one is either lying or wrong----just as one who advocates violence as a means to an end is not a pacifist, no matter how much one would insist whilst doing the Frank Castle all over the neighborhood.  Words mean things, and the meaning exists independently of people misusing them.
2.  Like I said, it is the degree of its existence to which where it can be argued for and against; arguing its existence as feminists define it is not incorrect in of itself and your point here was irrelevant in its entirety.
3.  That is not what I said.  I said it would fall short of being achieved if the gender aspect falls short, just as it would falll short of being achieved if any other aspect you've mentioned falls short.  For an egalitarian society to exist, all must pursued---including feminism.  Without, an egalitarian state cannot exist.
4.  That's what feminism is.  Dictionary, dude.  Someone else dug it up (in an inept attempt to argue against me) and proved it.  You're simply denying reality---but reality exists whether you accept it or not--and refusing to communicate: your entire position is self-defeating considering the very language we're using demonstrably refutes it.



Teeqoz said:
Captain_Yuri said:

This! I don't think I have ever seen or met a feminist who doesn't think like that.

Not this. The statement is absolute bullshit. It is by definition wrong.  If you want equal rights for both men and women, you are a feminist.

I would like to refer to that as an equalitist or emancipist. Even the word feminist which comes from feminine is female orientated. I believe in London that a councilor (or whatever they call them) adressed issues for men and wanted to introduce a man's day. There was already a female day to adress problems with women in society  (wage gap, fewer women with a high function). People simply laughed at them, especially the few women who where in that room.

Feminism originates from a time in which males had a superior position in society in almost every way so giving women more rights and not giving a crap about male issues was logical at the time. These days there are problems on both sides custody and school on men's side and career opportunities, abortion sexual harresment and violation on women's side. So the thermography should change to something like emancipist or equalist, since the word feminist alone indicates the movement cares more about female is problems than those of males.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Communism = Feminism. The  modern school system has adopted teaching styles that ensure females perform better than males and try to create a more equal society. Females usually take up easy majors like humanitarians, teaching, arts, psychology, nursing, etc. More education does not guarantee employment in the real world.