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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 Neo Could Be 5.5tf ($399 - $599)

Intrinsic said:

Slight exageration. I doubt any reasonable person thought the Neo with its rumored GPU was going to be a 4k monster. I can't speak for others, but i have repeatedly said that the Neo will more likely be fine tuned to run games natively at 1080p or 1440p then upscaled to 4k before being semt out to the TV. Even at 6TF i believe the scorpio would do something similar.

And you of all people should know that a TF value on the PC is very differemt from a TF value on a console. Consoles will typically get more out of those TFs so to speak. 

And then perfectly timed you get... :P

KBG29 said:
Looking at all the RX480 reviews, if the Neo is around 1200hz and 5.5TF, then it should easily pull of 4K/30fps on most titles with the benifits of being in a console enviornment. That would be great news for those of us playing on 120' projection systems.

I think Neo and Scorpio will be well made 4K gaming boxes in the way PS4 OG is a 1080p box. A lot of 4K/30FPS games with some 4K/60, and some 1440p/60fps titles.

Most importantly of all, they should garentee 90 - 120fps on VR titles at 1080p, and that will make for a supurb VR experince.

No.
But thanks for proving my point from a prior post.


Intrinsic said:

And you of all people should know that a TF value on the PC is very differemt from a TF value on a console. Consoles will typically get more out of those TFs so to speak. 

Mostly because they can work around hardware nuances and limitations, but it's still a meaningless number in the grand scheme of things, even on console, a Polaris GPU inside of a Console is still not doing high quality AAA 4k gaming regardless of how many flops it has.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite has it nailed. People need to stop thinking that 'console=magic amazing use of resources' like it was back when companies had to learn how to squeeze incredible tricks from bizarre architectures.

X86+GCN is pretty well understood and mature at this point, and Windows gaming performance has gotten extremely efficient at using the hardware. This is one reason an i3 + 750ti can match or exceed PS4 performance in most cases. Even the most impressive console games (UC4 comes to mind) are impressive primarily from the budget and incredible talent at work. Art direction, motion capture, the ability to put genuine effort into minute background details abound, and the result is awesome. But in pure performance terms, UC4 being 1080p/30 with high textures, decent AA, etc doesn't look like something that wouldn't run pretty close to that on a similarly specced PC.

Hence, Neo/Scorpio aren't going to magically do 4K with ease. AMD 6TF is pretty good, but not ideal for 4K gaming without cutting some corners.

Now, turn off AA, scale back lighting, and I think it can look pretty good. Personally in a typical console setting (say 60" TV from a 10' couch distance), I'd prefer 1080p/60 with the extra resources going into very high polycount models, UHD textures everywhere, etc. A great example can even be done on PC. Run vanilla Skyrim maxed at 4K, then run modded Skyrim with HD textures, model upgrades, HDR, etc at 1080p, and the 1080p game looks MILES better.

I'm not anti-4K either. I have a 4K 60hz displayport panel (Dell), and a 1440p 144hz display, and I even prefer 1440p/60 over 1080/144 by a pretty big margin. This is sitting at my computer desk in my gaming throne though :) I have exceptional vision, but 4K @ 10' is meh to me. I can tell 720 from 1080 at that distance, but 1080 vs 4K at that distance is tougher (granted, I only have a 60" TV for my gaming HTPC, an 85" or higher and I might feel different).



Airaku said:
I will laugh my ass off if the NX matches the Neo and Nintendo uses that extra power to push polycount. Sony and Microsoft will likely need to make some "exclusive" games like the N3DS does in order to look as impressive. Not to mention some third parties might want to take advantage of the NX. Sure it can be a port of the other version, but exclusives would undoubtly be higher fidelity.

Of course this won't be happening, but it would be funny if it was. Hell, if it was 4.5 teraflops and a better CPU using Polaris or Zen then it would be a beast in comparison to the Scorpio and Neo. The Jaguar is kind of crappy and the 14nm would be cheaper, more powerful, and energy efficient. Imagine Breath of the Wild with significantly better physics and dynamic weather and onscreen objects. Sure, GPUs do most of that now. Granted, and Zen and Polaris might be "out there" if the Nvidia Pascal rumors are true, which I doubt.

If Nvidia is providing Nintendo with GPU's. They likely will be giving them good GPU's at a massive discount. With their optimization being a little crappy on PC right now. This would give them the much needed boost with developers so games will once again run better on Nvidia GPU's.

Microsoft isn't using Jaguar again... 

And Nvidia will kill Nintendo. They sell luxury products. Nintendo likes their consoles cheap. They are dead if they rely on Nvidia... 

 

Also... Hmmm... Let's see... The console God Howard requested or a leak from a weirdo?

...  



JoeTheBro said:
LordLichtenstein said:

Unknown?

Osirisblack was the first person to leak PS4 NEO/4K.

No. Kotaku leaked PS4K 12 days before his post: http://kotaku.com/sources-sony-is-working-on-a-ps4-5-1765723053

This settles it. OsirisBlack is a hack.



Curious to see how this one plays out, not that it's going to alter any buying plans I currently have. 

The only reason I can see SCE releasing a $599 console (again) is out of a simple matchmanship play to stay competitive with Scorpio, which I'm still not even clear if it's an all new platform, a Win10 platform (both?) or a just high end XBO. 

The advantage SCE has is that they are releasing Neo in 2016, a full year before Scorpio, meaning even if Scorpio looks better on paper by specs, SCE will still have beaten MS to the punch with a console that is comparable, assuming price/performance ratios are comparable. 

But at $599, I have a really hard time seeing a big market for this unless this is the only real way to experience PS VR properly and without compromise. Even then, we're looking at a $1000 total package, which is a pretty big limitation on the size of the market, particularly if it doesn't measure up to the best VR experience on PC, whichever system that may be. 

Originally, I was regarding Neo as a direct price replacement ($399) for existing PS4s that I would buy if I liked the new packaging, my existing PS4 was ready for retirement, or I felt a big push for 4K Blu-Ray, which is becoming a much lesser reason to buy given the small handful of movies I would actually end up buying on the new format. I can wait for standardization, and if that never happens and prerecorded media truly is at the end of its line, the only incentive is for installer/disk keys that can hold more data for ever expanding game sizes, which really isn't a concern of mine as 90% of my games are bought digitally. 

But again, we'll see. I'm still filing this one under speculation, but speculation based upon an understandable strategy for SCE. 



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It will be interesting to see how they plan to boost the specs if Devs already have Dev kits. Guess buying the 1st wave of Neo games wouldn't be a good idea since if the 4tf spec Neo is true and they plan on boosting it to 5.5tf than those games wont be utilising the Neo's potential.



Azzanation said:
It will be interesting to see how they plan to boost the specs if Devs already have Dev kits. Guess buying the 1st wave of Neo games wouldn't be a good idea since if the 4tf spec Neo is true and they plan on boosting it to 5.5tf than those games wont be utilising the Neo's potential.

Dev kits are not always the final product:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Development-Kit-Orbis-PlayStation-Bulldozer-Vita,20660.html

PS4 dev kits Janauary 2013 specs:

According to the specs, the kit has 8 GB of RAM and 2.2 GB of video memory. The CPU is listed as 4x dual-core AMD64 "Bulldozer" – indicating that there will be eight cores total – and the GPU is listed as an AMD R10xx. Also included is a 160 GB HDD, a Blu-ray drive, four USB 3.0 ports, two Ethernet ports, HDMI and optical output, and 2.0, 5.1 and 7.1 audio channels.



Azzanation said:
It will be interesting to see how they plan to boost the specs if Devs already have Dev kits. Guess buying the 1st wave of Neo games wouldn't be a good idea since if the 4tf spec Neo is true and they plan on boosting it to 5.5tf than those games wont be utilising the Neo's potential.

This is true at the launch of all devices. Final dev kits only go out within less than 6 months of launch. So you are only seeing games that were patched togther to use all of the power with very little optimization. It really takes a good 3 years before you see games start taking good advantage of the hardware, because by that time they were basically built from the ground up on final hardware.

As far as buying the games go, they are all PlayStation Games from here on out, so no reason not to buy a game. You can play it on the current PS4 now, and then whenever you get around to buying a newer PlayStation, the experience will be better.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

 

Pemalite said:
Intrinsic said:

Slight exageration. I doubt any reasonable person thought the Neo with its rumored GPU was going to be a 4k monster. I can't speak for others, but i have repeatedly said that the Neo will more likely be fine tuned to run games natively at 1080p or 1440p then upscaled to 4k before being semt out to the TV. Even at 6TF i believe the scorpio would do something similar.

And you of all people should know that a TF value on the PC is very differemt from a TF value on a console. Consoles will typically get more out of those TFs so to speak. 

And then perfectly timed you get... :P

KBG29 said:
Looking at all the RX480 reviews, if the Neo is around 1200hz and 5.5TF, then it should easily pull of 4K/30fps on most titles with the benifits of being in a console enviornment. That would be great news for those of us playing on 120' projection systems. 

I think Neo and Scorpio will be well made 4K gaming boxes in the way PS4 OG is a 1080p box. A lot of 4K/30FPS games with some 4K/60, and some 1440p/60fps titles. 

Most importantly of all, they should garentee 90 - 120fps on VR titles at 1080p, and that will make for a supurb VR experince.

No.
But thanks for proving my point from a prior post.


Intrinsic said:

And you of all people should know that a TF value on the PC is very differemt from a TF value on a console. Consoles will typically get more out of those TFs so to speak. 

Mostly because they can work around hardware nuances and limitations, but it's still a meaningless number in the grand scheme of things, even on console, a Polaris GPU inside of a Console is still not doing high quality AAA 4k gaming regardless of how many flops it has.

I will say again..... I do not believe and have never said the PS4 will do native 4k. I do not also believe (actually in tjis case i personally know) that TF alome is not the end all measure of performance. Right now its just the new PR nonsense being flung around just like how 20yrs ago it was "polygons". 

it is funny though that right after i said what i said some dude comes and says all that 4k nonsense. But maybe he just isnt tech adept and is making a typical consumer mistake. After all, therr are a lot of people that will believe all that uncompressed beautiful pixels stuff that MS talking heads said at the scorpio reveal. 

Azzanation said:
It will be interesting to see how they plan to boost the specs if Devs already have Dev kits. Guess buying the 1st wave of Neo games wouldn't be a good idea since if the 4tf spec Neo is true and they plan on boosting it to 5.5tf than those games wont be utilising the Neo's potential.

Devs kits are generally in flux. And i don't get what you mean by "first neo games".

THERE ARE NO NEO GAMES. 



Intrinsic said:

 

I will say again..... I do not believe and have never said the PS4 will do native 4k. I do not also believe (actually in tjis case i personally know) that TF alome is not the end all measure of performance. Right now its just the new PR nonsense being flung around just like how 20yrs ago it was "polygons". 

it is funny though that right after i said what i said some dude comes and says all that 4k nonsense. But maybe he just isnt tech adept and is making a typical consumer mistake. After all, therr are a lot of people that will believe all that uncompressed beautiful pixels stuff that MS talking heads said at the scorpio reveal. 

I never specifically stated you did say the Neo will do native 4k.

That "4k nonensense" is rife on these forums, could be because this isn't a tech Enthusiast Forum, but rather a gaming Enthusiast forum, technology isn't really the sole focus to allot of people, so they throw out an opinion instead.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--