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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 Neo Could Be 5.5tf ($399 - $599)

iNathan on 27 June 2016
davygee said:
Intrinsic said:

The point of delaying and incresing the price is all about more powah!!! And that point is a big deal csuse sony isnt in this alone. Even more relevant when its considered how essy it would be to make that more powerful box.

A mistake you are making is that you are treating the neo/scorpio like they are new consoles. It doesnt matter if the neo comes in at $400/$500/$600. There is a cheaper alternative oit there. People that go to buy a $300 PS4 won't miss out on anything. They just chose to get a 1080p version of the PS4. 

As with above, it doesnt matter if sony comes out a year before or a year after with the neo, game sales arent going to reflect whst sku of the PS4/XB1 they are played on. If by the time the neo is released there are 60M PS4s out there and it sells 1M units in one day (big if), the amount of PS4s out there will be 61M. 

Just look at these new consoles as nothing more than 4k boxes with added IQ stuff for more eye candy. I can almost gaurabtee you that both the neo and scorpio, even though outputting in 4k, will not run anygame natively at 4k. Its just a waste of resources. 

First to market makes such a huge difference, especially when its a solid 12 months.  Even if Sony delayed the Neo by 6 months to release a more powerful box, at a higher pricepoint, then all MS needs to do is up the spec slightly and still be the most powerful console on the market.  Sony will know, no matter what they do, MS will make sure their console is the most powerful.  So it is better for Sony to release first.

IMHO, the Scorpio is such a large leap from the Xbox One, it should be regarded as a new generation.  Yes it will run Xbox One games, but it IS a new platform.  The Neo on the other hand is a souped up PS4 and Sony have stated that it's a premium PS4.

One thing I do agree with, is that neither the Neo nor the Scorpio are 4k gaming consoles.  I'm in no doubt that the Scorpio will be able to show 4k games @ 30fps but they will look virtually identical to the Xbox One versions albeit at a higher resolution.  So we would only expect Medium to High settings at 30fps from the Scorpio.  I don't expect the Neo to be 4k at all.  Yes it will be able to play 4k video streams etc, but seriously doubt we will see any 4K native resolutions in any games.

We would be looking at 9-10tf in a home console to get 4K, Ultra-High @ 60fps....we are so why away from that.  Maybe for the PS5 in 2019.

There is no way in hell that Ps5 is 2019 if Ps Neo is coming in 2016 or 2017, that is just wishfull thinking, seriously people here need to get real, i know it is easier to dream and say crazy things but stop just stop lying to yourself and giving false hopes.

Ps5 is 2021 MINIMUM, 2022 much much more likely, tech needs to evolve more for that 4K 60fps, even 1080 from Nvidia isnt there yet but we are getting close but it is so expensive no way it is there in 2019, at least in ULTRA SETTINGS at 60FPS. 



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GribbleGrunger on 27 June 2016
Swordmasterman said:

I don't care much about hardware I'm still to purchase a next gen system this year. I will probably purchase a regular PS4 because Neo and Scorpio will be more expensive.

My country have a lot of tax and when PS4 first launched it was avaliable for 1800-2100US$ at the time.

Yeah, it doesn't really matter much, there are lots of great games that look stellar on the vanilla PS4 anyway.



 

The PS5 Exists. 


drkohler on 27 June 2016
Normchacho said:
NobleTeam360 said:

Even at 5.5tf, I think the Neo will still be 399. I think people are putting too much stock into the tf number when it comes to estimating the price of the machine. 

The bold is certainly true. Though Sony is also supposed to be upgrading the CPU and memory in this newer model ..

This is why I hate poster like this.

You totally make up an "upgrading the CPU and memory" line.

And the next guy quotes it and suddenly people discuss in 500+ pages long threads about something completely made up.



Normchacho on 27 June 2016
drkohler said:
Normchacho said:

The bold is certainly true. Though Sony is also supposed to be upgrading the CPU and memory in this newer model ..

This is why I hate poster like this.

You totally make up an "upgrading the CPU and memory" line.

And the next guy quotes it and suddenly people discuss in 500+ pages long threads about something completely made up.

"About the price, the source revealed that PlayStation Neo is currently priced at $399, however, this might go up by a $100 more (to $499) because Sony is considering adding a better CPU which would raise the price. However, the source added that they have been guaranteed that the price of PS4 Neo will be no higher than $499. Furthermore, there will not be any trade-in program for current PlayStation 4 owners at the time of PlayStation Neo launch, but this could change in future."

Pulled straight from the OP.

Upgraded memory was part of the origional Neo leak...It said that they would go from 8GB of GDDR5 @ 176 GB/S to 8GB of GDDR5 @ 218 GB/S

You want to make sure you have your information straight before you talk shit next time?



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Intrinsic on 27 June 2016
davygee said:

First to market makes such a huge difference, especially when its a solid 12 months.  Even if Sony delayed the Neo by 6 months to release a more powerful box, at a higher pricepoint, then all MS needs to do is up the spec slightly and still be the most powerful console on the market.  Sony will know, no matter what they do, MS will make sure their console is the most powerful.  So it is better for Sony to release first.

IMHO, the Scorpio is such a large leap from the Xbox One, it should be regarded as a new generation.  Yes it will run Xbox One games, but it IS a new platform.  The Neo on the other hand is a souped up PS4 and Sony have stated that it's a premium PS4.

One thing I do agree with, is that neither the Neo nor the Scorpio are 4k gaming consoles.  I'm in no doubt that the Scorpio will be able to show 4k games @ 30fps but they will look virtually identical to the Xbox One versions albeit at a higher resolution.  So we would only expect Medium to High settings at 30fps from the Scorpio.  I don't expect the Neo to be 4k at all.  Yes it will be able to play 4k video streams etc, but seriously doubt we will see any 4K native resolutions in any games.

We would be looking at 9-10tf in a home console to get 4K, Ultra-High @ 60fps....we are so why away from that.  Maybe for the PS5 in 2019.

A power race isnt necesary when the games made are defined by their minimum spec skus. 

It doesmt matter how large a leap the scorpio is, it will never be a "new generation" console unless you have exclusive games on it. Gsmes you can only play on the scorpio. And the second MS does that is the second they kill the xbox brand. Cause then it becomes scorpio is on its own competing with all of PS4. Which is why i wanna see how MS tackles VR support on the scorpio. 

Both the Neo/Scorpio will output 4k. If going the upscaler route like i expect them to then even the PS4/XB1 can output in 4k using a dedicsted upscaler. Differemce is that  both the neo and scorpio will probably run their games at 1440p natively, downsample that for 1080p displays and upscale that for 4k displays. All that extra power would be used for better IQ stuff. Makes for more of a wow factor thsn trying to output in native 4k. If the scorpio tried to output XB1 games in native 4k, then the Neo would still look better running the game natively at 1080p/1440p and using the extra power for more eye candy then outputting that at upscsled 4k.



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Pemalite on 28 June 2016
iNathan said:
davygee said:

First to market makes such a huge difference, especially when its a solid 12 months.  Even if Sony delayed the Neo by 6 months to release a more powerful box, at a higher pricepoint, then all MS needs to do is up the spec slightly and still be the most powerful console on the market.  Sony will know, no matter what they do, MS will make sure their console is the most powerful.  So it is better for Sony to release first.

IMHO, the Scorpio is such a large leap from the Xbox One, it should be regarded as a new generation.  Yes it will run Xbox One games, but it IS a new platform.  The Neo on the other hand is a souped up PS4 and Sony have stated that it's a premium PS4.

One thing I do agree with, is that neither the Neo nor the Scorpio are 4k gaming consoles.  I'm in no doubt that the Scorpio will be able to show 4k games @ 30fps but they will look virtually identical to the Xbox One versions albeit at a higher resolution.  So we would only expect Medium to High settings at 30fps from the Scorpio.  I don't expect the Neo to be 4k at all.  Yes it will be able to play 4k video streams etc, but seriously doubt we will see any 4K native resolutions in any games.

We would be looking at 9-10tf in a home console to get 4K, Ultra-High @ 60fps....we are so why away from that.  Maybe for the PS5 in 2019.

There is no way in hell that Ps5 is 2019 if Ps Neo is coming in 2016 or 2017, that is just wishfull thinking, seriously people here need to get real, i know it is easier to dream and say crazy things but stop just stop lying to yourself and giving false hopes.

Ps5 is 2021 MINIMUM, 2022 much much more likely, tech needs to evolve more for that 4K 60fps, even 1080 from Nvidia isnt there yet but we are getting close but it is so expensive no way it is there in 2019, at least in ULTRA SETTINGS at 60FPS. 

Let's look at the technology that we will in/before 2019...
1) AMD Navi with Next Generation memory. (I.E. Faster than HBM 2.) - And the successor to Navi, 2 years later with a new GPU architecture.
2) Refinement/successor to Zen.
3) 7nm fabrication at TSMC and Global Foundries with some big advantages over our current 28nm/16nm and 14nm chips.

4k will likely start to be mainstream once Navi+7/10nm rolls around.

 

Normchacho said:

Upgraded memory was part of the origional Neo leak...It said that they would go from 8GB of GDDR5 @ 176 GB/S to 8GB of GDDR5 @ 218 GB/S

You want to make sure you have your information straight before you talk shit next time?

You cannot compare raw numbers like that.
The Neo will use a more modern GCN architecture which means it has colour compression, which could give the NEO a 40% or more bandwidth advantage even if the bandwidth was the same as a regular PS4.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Lawlight on 28 June 2016
GribbleGrunger said:
Some people seem desperate for this to be wrong ... Just saying.

I want it to be right but there's just nothing concrete about it. Just 1 unknown poster.



davygee on 28 June 2016
Swordmasterman said:

Sony stated that  even if they launch the Neo this does not means that they will not launch the PS5. Microsoft in the other hand stated that they will never more make another Console Generation, they stated "Beyond Generations" all the games that will run on Scorpio must first run well on the Original Xbox, both Scorpio and NEO are limited by their cheaper versions.

Did Microsoft say that, I must have missed that.  Thats such a bold statement to make.

I agree though, that both the NEO and Scorpio are limited by both the PS4 and Xbox One, this is my main argument.

Unless the Scorpio breaks free from the Xbox One family, it will continually be shackelled by the lowest common denominator which is the Xbox One.  Games will have to run at the same framerate on both platforms so there is multiplayer parity.  3rd party developers will have to go one of two ways:

  1. Create Xbox One game at lower resolution and lower graphical detail @ 60fps
  2. Create Xbox One game at higher resolution and higher graphical details @ 30fps
Both these options hold back the Xbox brand; Option 1 will allow for higher framerate on both One and Scorpio, but detail on One version is distinctly low and not attractive.  Option 2 shows the One version in much better light, but restricts the Scorpio version.  As far as I can see, there is no third option that is attractive for both the One or Scorpio.  You could say, isn't this the same with the PS4 and NEO?  Well in my opinion, it's not.  The PS4 has generally seen higher resolution and higher framerated versions of 3rd party games over the last few years.  This puts the PS4 in a better position to showcase higher visuals as a basic.  The NEO version will show higher graphical details to determine the difference.
In short; the jump from PS4 to NEO is small in comparison to the One to Scorpio.  This is why I regard the Scorpio to be a generational leap from the One...on paper, it is a generational leap and by staying attached to the One, we will either see hugely downgraded ports to the One, or shackelled versions on the Scorpio.  The best thing for MS is to detach the Scorpio from the One.  Leave people behind if you need to.


Prediction (June 12th 2017)

Permanent pricedrop for both PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro in October.

PS4 Slim $249 (October 2017)

PS4 Pro $349 (October 2017)

walsufnir on 28 June 2016
davygee said:
Swordmasterman said:

Sony stated that  even if they launch the Neo this does not means that they will not launch the PS5. Microsoft in the other hand stated that they will never more make another Console Generation, they stated "Beyond Generations" all the games that will run on Scorpio must first run well on the Original Xbox, both Scorpio and NEO are limited by their cheaper versions.

Did Microsoft say that, I must have missed that.  Thats such a bold statement to make.

I agree though, that both the NEO and Scorpio are limited by both the PS4 and Xbox One, this is my main argument.

Unless the Scorpio breaks free from the Xbox One family, it will continually be shackelled by the lowest common denominator which is the Xbox One.  Games will have to run at the same framerate on both platforms so there is multiplayer parity.  3rd party developers will have to go one of two ways:

 

  1. Create Xbox One game at lower resolution and lower graphical detail @ 60fps
  2. Create Xbox One game at higher resolution and higher graphical details @ 30fps
Both these options hold back the Xbox brand; Option 1 will allow for higher framerate on both One and Scorpio, but detail on One version is distinctly low and not attractive.  Option 2 shows the One version in much better light, but restricts the Scorpio version.  As far as I can see, there is no third option that is attractive for both the One or Scorpio.  You could say, isn't this the same with the PS4 and NEO?  Well in my opinion, it's not.  The PS4 has generally seen higher resolution and higher framerated versions of 3rd party games over the last few years.  This puts the PS4 in a better position to showcase higher visuals as a basic.  The NEO version will show higher graphical details to determine the difference.
In short; the jump from PS4 to NEO is small in comparison to the One to Scorpio.  This is why I regard the Scorpio to be a generational leap from the One...on paper, it is a generational leap and by staying attached to the One, we will either see hugely downgraded ports to the One, or shackelled versions on the Scorpio.  The best thing for MS is to detach the Scorpio from the One.  Leave people behind if you need to.

 

But that only applies to exclusives. Multiplatform games release also on Xbone so both Neo and Scorpio are "shackled".

That said, Neo will always be limited by PS4 as it is only a PS4 to Sony with enhanced specs. Scorpio is only to be said as part of "Xbox One family" and we will see how that turns out in the future.



davygee on 28 June 2016
walsufnir said:

But that only applies to exclusives. Multiplatform games release also on Xbone so both Neo and Scorpio are "shackled".

That said, Neo will always be limited by PS4 as it is only a PS4 to Sony with enhanced specs. Scorpio is only to be said as part of "Xbox One family" and we will see how that turns out in the future.

Yes, the NEO is just a souped up PS4.  Faster processor and 2+ times the GPU.  The difference I was making is that the PS4 has generally received much better performing games compared to the One.  This is why there has to be a tradeoff with the One or Scorpio seeing as the PS4 will more than likely get 60FPS games more readily compared to the One without a major graphical tradeoff, whether it's resolution of graphical detail.



Prediction (June 12th 2017)

Permanent pricedrop for both PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro in October.

PS4 Slim $249 (October 2017)

PS4 Pro $349 (October 2017)