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Forums - General Discussion - Is free will a myth?

I've been doing a bit of research lately (not professionally, just reading through stuff that was already out there), and I found myself convinced that what we call free will is in essence an illusion. This sort of conflicts with what I want to be true, but rationally, it just makes sense.

 

When all comes to all, our brain transmits signals through chemicals and electrical impulses, and each single action that happens is caused by one or more other actions. Everything we do is a result of factors that we have no control over, thus free will doesn't exist. It's sort of hard to comprehend what this implies, and it's a mindboggling concept though, but what do you guys think?

 

PS. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean everything has a predetermined outcome and that everything is moving on a set path. It just means that you (and I, and everyone else) don't actually have a say on what the outcome is.



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It's really irrelevant. Whether it exists or not, the only logical thing to do is to act as if it does.



Yes, it's like there's no "you" that's somehow separate from the universe but directing your body to make decisons. Any decisions you make are a direct result of the laws of nature acting on the cells that make up your body - there's no space for free will to even happen.

OP mentioned that outcomes are not predetermined - that's correct from a scientific point of view, quantum mechanics means that any particular action could happen in several different ways until observed. We do know the possible states and their probabilities though.



I call myself an incompatibilist. Free Will is an illusion. BUT before we go any further. You have to define what kind of Free Will you actually mean, because there is no exact definition of what abilities it has. Compatibilists for example bend the definitions of Free Will to their likings in order to fit into determinism.
But for me, Free Will is the ability to act at a certain time at a certain scenario differently than before. Meaning: You had the freedom of choosing otherwise.
While we live in a casual physical world, a deterministic world, an uncaused cause which would be Free Will in my opinion, can't happen. It would go against the laws of physics.

I bothered myself with this question for many years now and only come to this conclusion that Free Will does not exists. I've noticed that people who argue for Free Will, don't see the casual chain of thought processing and determination which are leading to the choice being made.
Later on I've found out about all the positions that exists and went deeper into it. Eventually I've found out about Sam Harris which shares my opinion on this matter.



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If everything is predetermined by what's rational, logical or natural, then wouldn't the fact that irrational choice making exist be a proof that free will exists?



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Another thing, possibly unrelated:

I've always found it perplexing when people tell me that things such as opinions and preferences are choice, because they really aren't. You don't have control what you believe in. You don't choose to prefer one flavor of ice cream to another. You just do. You did choose, however, which flavor you get.



bet: lost

JWeinCom said:
It's really irrelevant. Whether it exists or not, the only logical thing to do is to act as if it does.

It's actually relevant for the people who want to know more about this world and how it works. It is one of the answers to what we are and why we exist.



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Wright said:

If everything is predetermined by what's rational, logical or natural, then wouldn't the fact that irrational choice making exist be a proof that free will exists?

No, rationality or irrationality are no laws of physics but what we humans define for certain acts.

An irrational person can still think it acts rational.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

"When all comes to all, our brain transmits signals through chemicals and electrical impulses, and each single action that happens is caused by one or more other actions."

This is true if we assume that our current scope of reality is complete. I think there is evidence to suggest that there must be something supplemental to our current understanding of physical reality. For instance consciousness has yet to be explained solely using our understanding of chemicals and electrical impulses.



Peh said:

No, rationality or irrationality are no laws of physics but what we humans define for certain acts.

An irrational person can still think it acts rational.

 

Then, trying to beat the established law of physics wouldn't be a free will decision, instead of accepting them?