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Forums - Politics Discussion - Brexit discussion thread- UPDATE: the majority chose leave!

 

Should Britain stay or leave?

Stay! 185 48.43%
 
Leave! 197 51.57%
 
Total:382
zippy on 24 June 2016
aLkaLiNE said:
Soundwave said:

lol ... what, the UK economy is basically socialist by American standards. 

This just means England (probably no UK in the long run as Scotland is likely to bounce) will become kind of a niche worldwide player now ... what do they even make? 

Range Rovers and fish and chips? They are economically not a big player globally going forward. 

A little company known as British petroleum.

 

We invented the internet too

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Lawlight on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all

This is unhelpful data. We need a bigger breakdown of the age group. For all we know, the majority of people from 30-64 wanted out. 



Lawlight on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all

The majority of the working class wanted to leave. Here you go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-which-type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/



tokilamockingbrd on 24 June 2016
SuperNova said:
hershel_layton said:

Curious, but what country do you live in?


Also, I find it disappointing how many European nations are against guns. Never thought people would have such a big issue with protecting themselves. I wonder if crime and rape rates would decrease if guns were more tolerable in Europe.

Europe as a whole has much lower crime rates then US though.

Seeing that crime rate overall is half of the US and rape rates are a third of the US in germany and france alone, so rates lowering with the introduction of guns is doubtful. Scandinavia and Spain have even better rates.

The easy answer is: People feel safe on the streets without guns. There's no need to 'protect themselves' in their perception.

crime in the US is tricky to properly capture. There are specific places that have extreme crime rates that drive up numbers for the whole country. Like the south and west side of Chicago. There is more violent crimes there in one month than most states have in an entire year. A vast majority of places in the US are very very safe with enclaves of areas that are the complete opposite. 

That said we need more gun restictions. No person needs to own an assualt rifle. The only purpose for those weapons is to kill people. 



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

mutantsushi on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Will Brits need visas now to travel into other parts of Europe?

emm... just a guess...
but given that US, Canadian, most of Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, UAE citizens (and more) do not need a EU visa.
probably not.  



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Hedra42 on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Would you be claiming that "democracy has failed" if the UK populace voted to remain in the EU?

Well I will say this, looking at the exit polls it looks like it if was just people 65 or younger voting, the "Remain" side would've won fairly easily. 

It's people 65 and over that tilted the scales ... and I have to question whether or not people, many of whom are likely to be dead in 10-15 years have the right to change the future of a country that they won't be living in pretty soon. 

Lol, there was no exit poll, made apparent by 90 minutes of very boring TV before the first results coming in.

There have, however, been plenty of demographic polls that did suggest those statistics (the typical Remain profile came out as a 24 year old female graduate living in Scotland, the typical Leave profile came out as a 60 year old male skilled worker living in East Anglia)

You might also want to factor in the young people who didn't vote because they were wallowing in mud at Glastonbury all day yesterday, or those people in the South and the East who couldn't reach their flooded polling stations, or had better things to do like pumping flood water out of their homes after the huge thunderstorms that hit the UK the night before.

Not to mention the relatively low turnout of Scotland. Who knows, if more of them had turned out north of the border, they might have increased the Remain vote further.

Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all

These figures are extrapolated from a poll based on 1652 people. 

You know how VGChartz works :D



tokilamockingbrd on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all

I am 30. I finally believe I have reach an age where my peers look at the big picture. Generally speaking young people are naive and easily impressioned. They are the demographic that some would actually give a shit about what a celebrity thinks they should do, and young people are much more likely to have their opinion influenced by what those around them think. Personally I think the 30-60 demographic is the most trustworthy. Old enough to have seen the world and how it works and have some semblance of how things work over time, but yet not too old to be in the old and senile stage where you are easily scared into stuff. 



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

LiquorandGunFun on 24 June 2016

Happy independence day UK!

Suck it globalists and especially George Soros!



 

Cobretti2 on 24 June 2016

well they voted to be out doesn't mean their gov will go through with it lol.



 

 

AnthonyW86 on 24 June 2016
tokilamockingbrd said:
Soundwave said:

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all

I am 30. I finally believe I have reach an age where my peers look at the big picture. Generally speaking young people are naive and easily impressioned. They are the demographic that some would actually give a shit about what a celebrity thinks they should do, and young people are much more likely to have their opinion influenced by what those around them think. Personally I think the 30-60 demographic is the most trustworthy. Old enough to have seen the world and how it works and have some semblance of how things work over time, but yet not too old to be in the old and senile stage where you are easily scared into stuff. 

Glad to see someone who i can agree with. Also for the younger generation of Brits being part of the EU is all they know, so they might not have the best oversight to make this decision. I actually think that the minimum age for these kind of referendums should be higher than general elections. In the latter you can vote on a party/leader that you prefer, and it's important that the view of the younger generation is taken into account in the forming of a new governement. However a referendum requirers an informed decision, and it creates a situation where the people determine directly what a governement should do. So that would mean that young and unexperienced people are telling older and and more experienced members of governement what to do. I don't think that's a desirable situation.

Looking at the poll not taking the younger age group into account would mean that the leave camp actually won by a landslide.