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Forums - Politics Discussion - Brexit discussion thread- UPDATE: the majority chose leave!

 

Should Britain stay or leave?

Stay! 185 48.43%
 
Leave! 197 51.57%
 
Total:382
Goodnightmoon on 24 June 2016
Symbolic said:
Goodnightmoon said:
Terrible news.

Hate and blind patriotism has won, democracy has failed.

Dark times are coming for UK and Europe now, what a complete dissaster.

Would you be claiming that "democracy has failed" if the UK populace voted to remain in the EU?

When people votes with hate and blind patriotism instead of brains, democracy fails.



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Zkuq on 24 June 2016

This will be interesting. Short-term, this will probably be more or less bad for everyone, but especially Britain. Long-term is hard to tell, but even if it's bad, I don't expect it to be nearly as bad as short-term. But more than anything, I see this as a case everyone else can and should carefully study to see the effects of leaving the EU. This will provide valuable data for others to use.

On a side note, I'm almost thinking this was worth it just to get Cameron to resign. I really disliked that guy due to some of his undemocratic ideas about surveillance and parenting citizens.



Lafiel on 24 June 2016

Well, I personally think this vote is a mistake, but congratulations to everyone voting "leave" and enjoying their newly achieved independence.

I wonder if that results in Scotland leaving the UK after all, afaik the 2014 referendum is nullified with this as it had been tied to staying in the EU.



Soundwave on 24 June 2016
Scisca said:
Soundwave said:

Invest with what? It's not like these men/women are working in London as investement big wigs. Most of them are making month-to-month payments back home to their kids to put food on the table while they live probably in tiny flats the size of a closet. The work jobs most average Brits don't want or are too lazy to do. 

It makes a difference when the political discourse is taken over by people who dislike say Eastern European immigrants or whatever group they dislike to render policy against them. If that's not a difference, I'm not sure what is. 

That's only your personal opinion. I know for a fact many of them are successful enough to be able to add to our economy. My brother returned from UK this year and had enough capital to start a business here and buy a few flats to rent on the side. You don't need billions of dolars to start a business.

No it doesn't. The English are pragmatic and will follow their centuries-old policy of supporting a balance on the continent, cause it benefits them the most. UK doesn't want any European country to become a significant leader, instead wants countries to keep cancelling each other out. That's why the rise of Germany and their alliance with Russia scares UK and their natural answer is to support Poland as counterweight in Central Europe. That's why Cameron visits Poland a couple times a year, that's why we've started a close cooperation within NATO. No populist bullshit will blind any politician over it. Learn about true politics.

Here's a newsflash ... it's not 1935 anymore.

And even if Germany and Russia are dance partners, lol I doubt Poland factors very much if at all into that whole equation. 



Symbolic on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Would you be claiming that "democracy has failed" if the UK populace voted to remain in the EU?

Well I will say this, looking at the exit polls it looks like it if was just people 65 or younger voting, the "Remain" side would've won fairly easily. 

It's people 65 and over that tilted the scales ... and I have to question whether or not people, many of whom are likely to be dead in 10-15 years have the right to change the future of a country that they won't be living in pretty soon. 

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

Goodnightmoon said:
Symbolic said:

Would you be claiming that "democracy has failed" if the UK populace voted to remain in the EU?

When people votes with hate and blind patriotism instead of brains, democracy fails.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?



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Lawlight on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Would you be claiming that "democracy has failed" if the UK populace voted to remain in the EU?

Well I will say this, looking at the exit polls it looks like it if was just people 65 or younger voting, the "Remain" side would've won fairly easily. 

It's people 65 and over that tilted the scales ... and I have to question whether or not people, many of whom are likely to be dead in 10-15 years have the right to change the future of a country that they won't be living in pretty soon. 

So, not keeping track of the GBP anymore? Not suiting your "UK is doomed" rhetoric anymore?



Soundwave on 24 June 2016
Symbolic said:
Soundwave said:

Well I will say this, looking at the exit polls it looks like it if was just people 65 or younger voting, the "Remain" side would've won fairly easily. 

It's people 65 and over that tilted the scales ... and I have to question whether or not people, many of whom are likely to be dead in 10-15 years have the right to change the future of a country that they won't be living in pretty soon. 

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

Goodnightmoon said:

When people votes with hate and blind patriotism instead of brains, democracy fails.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all



hershel_layton on 24 June 2016
dan_banan said:
hershel_layton said:

Curious, but what country do you live in?


Also, I find it disappointing how many European nations are against guns. Never thought people would have such a big issue with protecting themselves. I wonder if crime and rape rates would decrease if guns were more tolerable in Europe.

 

curious, but when in the history of this planet has more guns ever equalled less crime? and you're disappointed?? mind-boggling.

Never said guns=less crime. I even said "I wonder"



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Would you be claiming that "democracy has failed" if the UK populace voted to remain in the EU?

Well I will say this, looking at the exit polls it looks like it if was just people 65 or younger voting, the "Remain" side would've won fairly easily. 

It's people 65 and over that tilted the scales ... and I have to question whether or not people, many of whom are likely to be dead in 10-15 years have the right to change the future of a country that they won't be living in pretty soon. 

I actually wanted to say that, but  I was sure someone would say they have the most experience, smarter than youngsters, blah blah



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

AnthonyW86 on 24 June 2016
Soundwave said:
Symbolic said:

Are you proposing that voting rights should be limited based on age, projected life span or length of intention to live within that country? Would this only apply to referendums, or also to general elections where one segment of a particular politician's platform could have an impact after that particular voter is no longer living in the UK?

Secondly, how would you handle legislation and government programs that were enacted long before many current voters were even born? Should they be exempt from the programs, or should they just have to deal with the decisions of their predecessors? An example of this would be the United Kingdom joining the European Economic Community in 1973; anyone born in 1953 or later didn't get to vote in the 1970 general election that elected PM Edward Heath and thus didn't have a say on whether or not the UK should have joined the EEC, yet all of them have had to live with that decision.

How do you possibly know that everyone who voted to leave voted based on "hate and blind patriotism"? Could people not have simply reasoned and came to a different conclusion than you?

Secondly, what do you even define as "hate"? Does wanting to implement an immigration system akin to Australia's point system count as "hate"? Does building a fence and policing your borders like Hungary count as "hate"? Does merely being critical of the European Union's or some of its member states' views on immigration and identity count as "hate"?

I'm just point out the flaw in it. Even the whole "the working class voted" ... well the vast majority of the working class is under 65 years old, so in that case this isn't what they voted for at all

To be fair the two last age groups do have the most life experience. If any the age group between 18-24 is more likely to be somewhat naive, and might also find economics(read money) more important at that age than freedom or souvernty. At a later age most people realise that there are more important things than money or "fitting in". There is a reason why governements usually  don't consist of teenagers or people in their 20's.