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Forums - Sports Discussion - Why does Messi needs to win a major tournament in order to be compared to Pele and Maradona?

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This dude is a more well rounded player than any of those greats mentioned.
He has long and short pass master skills, he can organize the offense, plays winger, striker and defends.



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He's already the greatest of all time.



Messi is an excellent striker. An excellent play-maker, and probably the best footballer we've ever had. While he lost some of his magic in some areas, he became a lot better at others, especially play-making and free-kicks.

He was on his way to win the World Cup 2014 and played an excellent first half. The coach decided to change his position on the second half, and take out Lavezzi too. Argentina lost because the coach made dumb decisions, but it doesn't take away from Messi's greatness.

So I am 100% with you on this one. He is absolutely comparable to Pale and Maradona, and he is probably better than both.



Consider that in Pelé times, playing in Brazil was like playing in spain today. I've seen some people neglect Pelé's club carreer with the dumb argument "he never played in Europe" without considering the best of southamerica played in southamerica in that time



And about Messi, I think he is already better than Maradona, but not close to Pelé



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pastro243 said:
And about Messi, I think he is already better than Maradona, but not close to Pelé

He is more than what Pele was. A better striker, better 10 and a winger that Pele never was.



BraLoD said:
Hiku said:

If Mascherano had had shot the ball 3 inches to the left instead of outside the post, Argentina would have been up 1-0 in the final, and Messi would have become the greatest of all time? Logic?

Yeah, no. Thing is, back in the day international football was above club football. Today club football is arguably at a higher level. And back during Pele and Maradona's era, it was much harder for defenders to study their opponents. The game has become much more organized since those days.
And speaking of Pele, he only played in America, and most of his goals are from friendly matches.

Saying Pelé only played in America is the same as saying Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo only played in Europe... Brasil had by far the best players back in Pelé time, exactly as Europe have them up there nowdays.

The rest of his post is sound and well put though. 



Because what makse a great player truly a legend is being able to lead his team to victory. Playing incredibly x Nigeria on the World Cup group stage and then missing the decisive goal on the final x Germany sucks for your chances on any best fo all time argument. Messi doesn't even the excuse Cristiano Ronaldo has, he pays in a sensational team, Argentina is currently the number 1 ranked team on the planet and was number 2 and 3 during the World Cups of 2014 and 2010 respectively, Messi still didn't manage to lead this team to victory. He hasn't even maanaged to lead this team to win a Copa America and he has played like 4 (altough its quite unlikely Argentina won't win this time around).

Example: LeBron James almost single handedly won the NBA finals this year. Romário completly demolished the 1994 World Cup. Maradona was the most decisive player of all time maybe during 1986 World Cup. Pelé was the maestro of 1970 World Cup etc.



Hiku said:
BraLoD said:

Saying Pelé only played in America is the same as saying Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo only played in Europe... Brasil had by far the best players back in Pelé time, exactly as Europe have them up there nowdays.

Johan Cruyff, Platini, George Best, Gerd Muller, every great player I can think of who played around that time played in Europe. Even before, with Alfredo Di Stefano, and after with Maradona. I don't recall hearing about anyone besides Pele playing only in America.

Pelé preceads all those you cited fyi (there is some overlaping but they were begining when Pelé was on his way out basicaly), only Di Stefano is from the same time as he was. Fact of the mater is Pelé would make excursions with Santos trought Europe (teams played much less on those days so there was time for that) and Santos basicaly never lost. They played every team of importance in Europe at least once and beat them all. South American football in general was much stronger back them because European teams weren't these multi millionaire enterprises that are slowly killing football by injecting infintie money into it and just buying every good player in the planet even from other smaler European teams and turning eveything into a contest between 5-6 teams that have all the ebst players in the world playing for them.

To put things in perspective the 3 of the top 5 best players in the world today are Neymar, Messi and Suarez, those 3 would all play on South America on Pelé's time. And so would Di Maria, Douglas Costas, Lavesi, Navas, Bravo, Mascerano, Jamez Rodrigues, Cuadrado, Arturo Vidal, Thiago Silva, Aguero, Marcelo etc.



DakonBlackblade said:

Because what makse a great player truly a legend is being able to lead his team to victory. Playing incredibly x Nigeria on the World Cup group stage and then missing the decisive goal on the final x Germany sucks for your chances on any best fo all time argument. Messi doesn't even the excuse Cristiano Ronaldo has, he pays in a sensational team, Argentina is currently the number 1 ranked team on the planet and was number 2 and 3 during the World Cups of 2014 and 2010 respectively, Messi still didn't manage to lead this team to victory. He hasn't even maanaged to lead this team to win a Copa America and he has played like 4 (altough its quite unlikely Argentina won't win this time around).

Example: LeBron James almost single handedly won the NBA finals this year. Romário completly demolished the 1994 World Cup. Maradona was the most decisive player of all time maybe during 1986 World Cup. Pelé was the maestro of 1970 World Cup etc.

Argentina only supersedes Portugal in the front. Rojo plays in the back, what a fraud. Argentina defense is as rickety as it comes, except Otamendi. 

They haven't had a team in a long time. They're bunch of talented midefielders and attackers but coaches can never glue them together.