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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Feelin' The Sting: Why Gamers Should Worry About The Scorpio's and Gaming's Future

Hello fellow members of VGChartz. OnlyForDisplay here, bringing you my first topic in quite some time. Today, I will be focusing on the Scorpio and why having the ability to natively use 4K may not be enough for gamers to splurge on the system itself. With that out of the way, let us get started.

 

DISCLAIMER: My viewpoint on the Scorpio is merely a reflection of my own feelings and it is, in no way, shape, or form, a means to attack the system, company or fanbase. My views stem purely from a gamers standpoint. One that is worried about a products success that could have a larger impact on the industry than most are giving it credit for. That being said, I ask you to please be respectful when reading this. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

 

 

Now... onto the topic!

 

 

 

Drastic Times Call For Drastic Measures:

 

40.7 million to 21.1 million. This is the current uphill battle Microsoft has on its hands. If anything, this has been the case since that fateful day in May; the infamous E3 2013 days after. Mixed messaging, DRM and always online helped stymie Xbox One sales and helped Sony reposition itself after their own botched launch of the PS3 seven years prior to 2013. Fast forward to E3 2016 and Microsoft has attempted multiple strategies to slow the PlayStation 4's growth but not much has worked. From price cuts to crazy bundles, nothing Microsoft did seemed to put a dent into Sony's fourth iteration of its successful PlayStation line. However, news surfaced for months regarding a more powerful Xbox One dubbed "Scorpio." Seeing this as their golden oppurtunity; E3 right at their heels the same, Microsoft, now with little to lose given the vast console sales difference,  decided to announce their new Xbox One variant; being able to play games in 4K; something it's rival can not do at this time. While this caused some to rejoice that 4K gaming is just one year away for the next step in home console gaming, there were some unanswered questions such as sales, pricing etc, etc. These types of questions and more were beginning to spring up across various communities and forums. While the Scorpio definitely is packing some serious tech, it may not be enough to stop the big trail that Microsoft needs to catch up with their rival. Speaking of that tech..

 

 

Is 4K Gaming Going To Be Worth Admission?

 

For those of you who play PC, this is more than likely a slam dunk yes. Considering that many of the PC components are available for such a task and that graphics cards are continuously in a state of evolution (Nvidia's GTX 1080 being the current king at the moment), 4K gaming is becoming more accessible and recommended each day. For those of you who have consoles.... this is a bit more complex. Yes, console gamers do want 4K... but at a price that is accessible. Paying over $600 /£600 is not something many of us who game on consoles greatly enjoy pondering. Such could be a situation when the Scorpio drops next holiday. Granted, that is a long time to think about what the price is, but something with 6 Teraflops of power is something unforseen in the console space and definitely is of note. Even if we were to not look at the specs. themselves, what type of games can we look forward too? Yes, I am aware that any Xbox One game will work with the Scorpio. However, according to Phil Spencer with an interview from Eurogamer, do not expect to see all your Xbox One games max out in 4K;

 

"That's why we continue to talk to developers about dynamic scaling because I think as compute capability goes up on the hardware, they kind of get it for free. Now, it's not going to make Halo 5 run with 4K pixels. The frame buffer is not a 4K frame buffer for the game. But it will run more solidly."

 

 

Now granted, some of you may have knew in advance, but the key here is that the pure power of the Xbox One Scorpio is not intended to work miracles for a specific type of software that does not support 4K natively. In addition, those 6 Teraflops are mallable according to "Major" Nelson with an interview from Eurogamer:

 

"If developers want to use those 6 teraflops in other ways they're free to do that."

 

Said statement is extremely intriguing to me. For one, if developers are allowed to use these 6 Teraflops in any way they desire, could this mean that they can simply bypass a large portion of the teraflops for other forms of development while the frame rate will not take a hit with the 4K native resolution? More importantly though, what is the limit on an area of development we can use those 6? While I am sure that these questions will be answered in time for devs., the fact of the matter is that, while such power being mallable is nice, what will it hinder considering there has to be trade-offs. Speaking of trade offs..

 

 

Deja Vu All Over Again?

 

 

Microsoft has faced controvesial decisions in the past. For that much is true. However, to face controversy again is quite unusual. For example, when asked about those who do not want to be "Always-Online", Don Mattrick, then head of the Xbox Division, stated that the solution was "Xbox 360", a response met with hefty and harsh criticism. Fast forward to today and history is repeating itself even though it is not going entirely noticed. Recall back when Both Phil and "Major" answered some questions to Eurogamer regarding the Xbox One Scorpio's power. Phil's answer states that the six teraflops is going to provide a boost only for native games outputting 4K. "Major's" answer states that the 6 teraflops are mallable for more than just the resolution itself. Again, harken back to 2013 when multiple Xbox execs. stated that the One does not have to be "Always Online" but the console must remain on at all times. That message from 2013 is eerily similar to what we are hearing now. Granted, it does not affect us as gamers... at least not directly. However, how these games perform will ultimately culminate back to these very statements. In addition to these statements, Microsoft touted that the Scorpio was a revolution in gaming. We also heard these same sediments back during E3 2013 when Microsoft touted the One as an "All In One Experience." The issue is, that, at the time, while the One would be an "All In One Experience", multiple devices were needed to bring out its potential. While the Scorpio is truly an impressive machine on paper, how will we be able to know it's full capabilities if the hardware itself is not utilized? "Only.. what... on Earth... are you talking about..?" I here you asking. Here is a quote from Aaron Greenberg on his twitter regarding the Scorpio:

 

"Great thing is with Project Scorpio as part of#XboxOne family all your games will work, no Scorpio exclusives, so no one gets left behind"

 

 

No exclusives to a console? Intriguing Greenberg would say this when Shannon Loftis, an Xbox Seinor, stated the exact opposite; Scorpio exclusives could be made at the discretion of the developer. Not one of these messages are succinct or cumulative. If anything, they are all over place. In other words, disorganized. However... let us take a step back and assume what Greenberg states is true about no exclusives on the Scorpio. What would have been the point of the Xbox One S if the Scorpio cannot differentiate itself from its other brethern? For that matter.. why bring up a console that has such potential that may never be tapped into? Even with all that said, the key here is again the price. Sadly.. none of us will know that answer until the following year... so it is anyone's guess. However, if the Scorpio is to be a "Native 4K experience", it's cost is going to be up there; regardless of what the other specs are. No matter how well Microsofts marketing campaign is.. if the price is too high, not many will buy the Scorpio. This leads to one final counterpoint for the Scorpio..

 

 

What Is The "True" Purpose of The Scorpio?

 

This question is ultimately based on what we currently know. Microsoft is forging ahead to untie the Xbox and PC crowds under the Windows 10 banner. With Windows 10 now accessible to the entire public; cross platform play now a thing for Microsoft as well, how does the Scorpio trickle down into the grand scheme of the Windows 10 initiative? "What Initiative are you talking about, OnlyForDisplay?" I hear you asking. From my understanding, Microsoft's goal is to offset any lossess based off of the Xbox One sales by using Windows 10 as a bridge to ultimately increase the software sales of their products. Considering that the software is what counts for Microsoft and it's rival Sony, Microsoft aims to have Windows 10 as a catalyst to boost software sales without entirely worrying about the performance of Xbox One sales considering the massive pool of PC gamers there are. "Again though OnlyForDisplay, what does any of this have to do with Scorpio?" Quite a bit. For one, if my understanding is correct, Scorpio seems to be less of a console and more of an extension for Microsoft; thereby effectively making the Xbox Ecosystem just a platform for Windows 10. If anything, this makes the Scorpio's existence more predicated on reaching out towards those interested or involved within Windows 10 an additional/beginning option as opposed towards being a separate entity. While this sounds nice from a business and even gamers perspective, it does bring up some caveats. For one, is there nothing else the Scorpio was built for outside of outsourcing towards new markets to increase the software sales of the Xbox? Most importantly, if this is the Scorpio's only purpose, what will become of its potential? Much like the PS4, I do not believe we, as a gaming community, have seen the best of what the One is capable of. Yet Microsoft is embarking on new paths in an attempt to cast a wide net towards a large populous of the gaming community to increase the profit margin. Will such an ambition allow us to see what Scorpio's limits are? Or will the next Xbox be out by then; effectively killing any chance of us seeing that come into fruition? Much like Chief Yoshi told Mario in the original "Super Mario Bros. Z";

 

"I sense dark days are ahead of us Mario."

 

That.. I could not agree on more. As gamers, we always want to see a consoles maximum potential. That way, we can judge or analyze if that platform truly was as great as the company stated it was going to be. In addition, considering Sony themselves are also venturing into a similar path with the Neo in addition towards their PSNow ecosystem, are iterations truly the future? Have we seen the last of the dedicated platform? Will it be possible to truly experience a console the same again without ever knowing it's ture potential. These questions and others are what we must and will face in time fellow VGChartz members. I just hope that the future we face together is not one of never realizing the true joy of gaming.

 

 

 

Well... that does it for the topic fellow members. Do you think Scorpio is more than just a gateway? Do you believe in Microsoft's plan of iterative console releases? How do you feel about such a console that may never realize it's full potential? Once again, thank you for reading. Remember.. this has been a topic that is...

 

 

OnlyForDisplay 



" It has never been about acknowledgement when you achieve something. When you are acknowledged, then and only then can you achieve something. Always have your friends first to achieve your goals later." - OnlyForDisplay

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I hope both fail. I hate the idea of consoles coming out every couple years and having smaller leaps. I want at least 5 year cycles for simplicity and generational leaps



I am Iron Man

I personally am not a big fan of Iterative consoles due to a few things.

1) Does this mean we won't have generations anymore? If that is the case, what is the cut off point because eventually, old technology will be holding games back enough that the devs would want to not develop for it anymore.

2) When will we see the next iteration? Is it going to be every 4 years? Every 2 years? One of the reasons I buy a console is because I will have the best experience available on that console for 5+ years... But something like this would mean that the publishers would show this nice looking trailer but if I have the older version of the console... Suddenly, I probably won't be having that zomg experience which was shown... We have seen games on both ps4 and xbox one perform sub 30fps, sometimes even going below 20s which is a huge issue. Because if devs will develop games for both and ps4/x1 is 20fps vs Neo/Scorpio is 30+ with significantly better graphics... That is not a good thing imo.

3) How much backpaddling is there going to be? Both Sony and MS said here won't be any exclusives but will they really keep their promise cause both have broken promises a few times in the past...

We will see how they handle it but I m not very confident



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Your text is too big and already is 00.20 AM where I live so I will tag now and read tomorrow



Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
I hope both fail. I hate the idea of consoles coming out every couple years and having smaller leaps. I want at least 5 year cycles for simplicity and generational leaps

Who is keeping you from just skipping one iteration?

Captain_Yuri said:
I personally am not a big fan of Iterative consoles due to a few things.

1) Does this mean we won't have generations anymore? If that is the case, what is the cut off point because eventually, old technology will be holding games back enough that the devs would want to not develop for it anymore.

2) When will we see the next iteration? Is it going to be every 4 years? Every 2 years? One of the reasons I buy a console is because I will have the best experience available on that console for 5+ years... But something like this would mean that the publishers would show this nice looking trailer but if I have the older version of the console... Suddenly, I probably won't be having that zomg experience which was shown... We have seen games on both ps4 and xbox one perform sub 30fps, sometimes even going below 20s which is a huge issue. Because if devs will develop games for both and ps4/x1 is 20fps vs Neo/Scorpio is 30+ with significantly better graphics... That is not a good thing imo.

3) How much backpaddling is there going to be? Both Sony and MS said here won't be any exclusives but will they really keep their promise cause both have broken promises a few times in the past...

We will see how they handle it but I m not very confident

1) The cutoff point will probably at the same point a normal generation leap would be. So every 2 iterations. So nothing changing on that front concerning devs and the support for old systems.

2) Really? People have been playing PC games that look miles better than console games for decades and suddenly you care about better graphics? Yes, if you do not spend the necessary money, you will have an inferior experience. That has always been the case for both consoles and PC. What is the problem with that now? It is not a good thing that games can be enjoyed at higher framerates? You see, the new consoles aren't the problem, the old consoles are. They were underpowered from the start and games always ran like shit. The new consoles will only make that same flaw all the more visible. Why blame them for it when they're at the same time fixing the issue?

3)I think this one will actually be on the devs. The devs will most likely rather develop on the new consoles but Sony won't let them. And at the same time they cannot ignore the existing install base. So they will just do it for the old console and then do an easy port. If they want to be fancy and have the time and money, they can improve the new version even more. However as the install base for the new console rises, devs will probably not want to waste their time optimizing for the inferior version. If enough devs will complain to Sony/MS about this I'm sure this no exclusive thing will be dropped, but A) that won't happen for at least a couple of years and B) might not happen at all due to the huge install base of of the old ones. So in the end I would not worry about it.

 

In the end all the negativity around the new consoles is all in your heads. What the new consoles are is a simple upgrade that has all of the advantages of a new generation and none of its drawbacks.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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Bristow9091 said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
I hope both fail. I hate the idea of consoles coming out every couple years and having smaller leaps. I want at least 5 year cycles for simplicity and generational leaps

Pretty much this, if it were up to me I'd prefer even longer cycles... we had 7 years between PS3 and PS4, and 8 years between the X360 and XBO, that's good enough for me... but both Sony and Microsoft seem to want to treat the console industry the same as the mobile phone industry, where people will upgrade their phones every couple of years... I don't buy into it, and really hope others don't either, so both companies realise that what they're doing is a mistake, and traditional console generations are still the best way to go...

It hasn't happened yet. Who's to say whether it will be good or bad? Perhaps you just don't want change.

I have no real intent to buy either at the moment. We don't have enough info to either buy in or dismiss it completely though.



I think Scorpio will have exclusives because VR games must of necessity be exclusive. That may be a source of some of the conflicting statements coming from Microsoft. Also, 4 years from now, you'll probably see them phasing out the XB1 entirely, while the Scorpio should still have some life in it at that point.



vivster said:

Captain_Yuri said:
I personally am not a big fan of Iterative consoles due to a few things.

1) Does this mean we won't have generations anymore? If that is the case, what is the cut off point because eventually, old technology will be holding games back enough that the devs would want to not develop for it anymore.

2) When will we see the next iteration? Is it going to be every 4 years? Every 2 years? One of the reasons I buy a console is because I will have the best experience available on that console for 5+ years... But something like this would mean that the publishers would show this nice looking trailer but if I have the older version of the console... Suddenly, I probably won't be having that zomg experience which was shown... We have seen games on both ps4 and xbox one perform sub 30fps, sometimes even going below 20s which is a huge issue. Because if devs will develop games for both and ps4/x1 is 20fps vs Neo/Scorpio is 30+ with significantly better graphics... That is not a good thing imo.

3) How much backpaddling is there going to be? Both Sony and MS said here won't be any exclusives but will they really keep their promise cause both have broken promises a few times in the past...

We will see how they handle it but I m not very confident

1) The cutoff point will probably at the same point a normal generation leap would be. So every 2 iterations. So nothing changing on that front concerning devs and the support for old systems.

2) Really? People have been playing PC games that look miles better than console games for decades and suddenly you care about better graphics? Yes, if you do not spend the necessary money, you will have an inferior experience. That has always been the case for both consoles and PC. What is the problem with that now? It is not a good thing that games can be enjoyed at higher framerates? You see, the new consoles aren't the problem, the old consoles are. They were underpowered from the start and games always ran like shit. The new consoles will only make that same flaw all the more visible. Why blame them for it when they're at the same time fixing the issue?

3)I think this one will actually be on the devs. The devs will most likely rather develop on the new consoles but Sony won't let them. And at the same time they cannot ignore the existing install base. So they will just do it for the old console and then do an easy port. If they want to be fancy and have the time and money, they can improve the new version even more. However as the install base for the new console rises, devs will probably not want to waste their time optimizing for the inferior version. If enough devs will complain to Sony/MS about this I'm sure this no exclusive thing will be dropped, but A) that won't happen for at least a couple of years and B) might not happen at all due to the huge install base of of the old ones. So in the end I would not worry about it.

In the end all the negativity around the new consoles is all in your heads. What the new consoles are is a simple upgrade that has all of the advantages of a new generation and none of its drawbacks.

2) The problem isn't about the new console having better graphics... The problem is the old consoles not getting the optimization needed to run at stable framerates and devs being lazy... If I bought say a ps4/x1 and those games could bearly run at 30 fps... When Neo/Scorpio launches, the optimization for ps4/x1 might get worse is what I am worried about. And then when the next iteration comes 4 years later, what if they do the same to Neo/Scorpio since I am assuming these won't be running high end games at 60fps either if the rumours are to believed and the cpus continue to be weak sauce.

With PC... My current PC can max out most games at 1080p 60fps and as my hardware gets dated, it has enough headroom to go 30fps if needed. The ps4/x1 has like zero headroom and if Scorpio/Neo is also 30fps, it also doesn't have much headroom when the next iteration comes in if that makes any sense. 



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:
vivster said:

1) The cutoff point will probably at the same point a normal generation leap would be. So every 2 iterations. So nothing changing on that front concerning devs and the support for old systems.

2) Really? People have been playing PC games that look miles better than console games for decades and suddenly you care about better graphics? Yes, if you do not spend the necessary money, you will have an inferior experience. That has always been the case for both consoles and PC. What is the problem with that now? It is not a good thing that games can be enjoyed at higher framerates? You see, the new consoles aren't the problem, the old consoles are. They were underpowered from the start and games always ran like shit. The new consoles will only make that same flaw all the more visible. Why blame them for it when they're at the same time fixing the issue?

3)I think this one will actually be on the devs. The devs will most likely rather develop on the new consoles but Sony won't let them. And at the same time they cannot ignore the existing install base. So they will just do it for the old console and then do an easy port. If they want to be fancy and have the time and money, they can improve the new version even more. However as the install base for the new console rises, devs will probably not want to waste their time optimizing for the inferior version. If enough devs will complain to Sony/MS about this I'm sure this no exclusive thing will be dropped, but A) that won't happen for at least a couple of years and B) might not happen at all due to the huge install base of of the old ones. So in the end I would not worry about it.

In the end all the negativity around the new consoles is all in your heads. What the new consoles are is a simple upgrade that has all of the advantages of a new generation and none of its drawbacks.

2) The problem isn't about the new console having better graphics... The problem is the old consoles not getting the optimization needed to run at stable framerates and devs being lazy... If I bought say a ps4/x1 and those games could bearly run at 30 fps... When Neo/Scorpio launches, the optimization for ps4/x1 might get worse is what I am worried about. And then when the next iteration comes 4 years later, what if they do the same to Neo/Scorpio since I am assuming these won't be running high end games at 60fps either if the rumours are to believed and the cpus continue to be weak sauce.

With PC... My current PC can max out most games at 1080p 60fps and as my hardware gets dated, it has enough headroom to go 30fps if needed. The ps4/x1 has like zero headroom and if Scorpio/Neo is also 30fps, it also doesn't have much headroom when the next iteration comes in if that makes any sense. 

That would actually be a pretty good argument if not the majority of all games already ran like shit. To be honest I don't care if the new consoles cause games on the old console drop to 20 instead of 22 fps.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
Captain_Yuri said:

That would actually be a pretty good argument if not the majority of all games already ran like shit. To be honest I don't care if the new consoles cause games on the old console drop to 20 instead of 22 fps.

Loll, well my fear is the performance getting even worse. We see devs struggling with one console from Sony and MS atm but when there's two more consoles? Specially since Sony and MS would most likely want devs to have higher graphics for the new consoles so that they can sell more and the power difference being quite big.... 

I guess we will see how they handle it but I shall remain skeptical



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850