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Forums - General Discussion - Dad defends son(convicted rapist); "it was only 20 minutes of action"

dongo8 said:
naruball said:

Right. So just because it's coming across that way to you, then I'm definitely defending him. Noted.

I actually agree with Wyrdness. You say you're not defending him but in the same post you are basically saying it is her fault for getting blackout drunk. She made a mistake, one that she will obviously never repeat, but it does not excuse his actions in any way, shape or form. I was saying I would be the most proud person ever of her because of the way she handled the situation and made herself a symbol for others out there. NOT because she was in the situation in the first place. She made one of the worst decisions she will ever make her entire life, but what she got for it was more than just the typical walk of shame the next day after being blackout drunk. She got a mental scar, physical evidence of forceful penetration, distrust for her peers, and then got dragged through court and had to relive it.

She is handling this situation in a much more mature and better way than most, and the way you are approaching it is kind of like you are blaming her. This is the same thing as defending the idiot who put his hands on her, and it's just wrong. So yes, in a way you are certainly defending the guy for what he did simply because you do not agree with what the woman did. I wouldn't approve of my kids drinking, doing drugs, anything illegal, PERIOD. But if they ever made a mistake (which many are liable to do) like this and something like this happened to them, I would be horrified. But then to have them turn it around into something positive for everyone else to look to and to understand, and experience from without ever actually having the experience themselves is pretty damn heroic in my mind. So I am and would be extremely proud of my kid for handling this situation in such a way that others can learn from it, and draw courage to speak out from it.

1. You're really not reading what I am saying.

2. Of course you're not saying that you'd be proud if your daughter was raped, that'd be crazy.

3. "It's 100% the rapist's fault". Is that clear? Yes? Great.

Now let's move to another topic, completely unrelated to the RAPE that happened. Heavy drinking. Heavy drinking can lead to a number of thinks including the death of the person who drinks or the deaths of others. It is bad on its own. Again, it doesn't have to do anything with the rape. I'm examining it as seprate thing.

Let's say that your son, James, goes to a bar; he gets really drunk and another guy starts a fight with him for no reason and he can't defend himself or run away, as he is intoxicated. He gets stubbed and goes to the hospital where he learns he won't be able to walk again. Is that his fault? NO! It is the person's who attacked him. But as a father wouldn't you wish he were more careful like you taght him? James leaves the hospital after a certain time and goes around schools telling students about the dangers of heavy drinking and dodgy bars (and speaks against violence). You feel proud of him.

You have another son, Nate. Nate went out the same day but to a bar with better reputation and had one drink. He rememebered what you taught him so he made sure he stayed out of trouble (i.e. by not drinking too much). He always listens to you. He comes home and finds out about his brother, James. He tries to do everything he can to comfort him. A few days later you read James' statement and feel very proud of him for the way he expressed himself/dealt with the situation.  

Who are you more proud of? James, who was unlucky to have someone almost kill him even though it wasn't his fault, but who also drank too much and went to a dodgy place, or of Nate who listened to you? Nate was never given the CHANCE to make you that "proud" for the very simple reason that he was careful, as you taught him.

 

 

 

Edit: My problem with your statement is this

"give her a superhero name or something, she is encouraging so many women to come forward with their stories...

I would be the proudest friend, parent, brother, sister, relative, acquaintance EVER if I knew who this girl was"

I believe that Nate is more of a superhero, one of those who don't wear capes. He can't inspire others like James simply because he hasn't made the same mistakes James did. Same with people praising Robert Downey Jr for overcoming his addiction and not people who resisted the temptation throughout their lives. Why not make heroes the latter group?



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Wyrdness said:
dongo8 said:

I actually agree with Wyrdness. You say you're not defending him but in the same post you are basically saying it is her fault for getting blackout drunk. She made a mistake, one that she will obviously never repeat, but it does not excuse his actions in any way, shape or form. I was saying I would be the most proud person ever of her because of the way she handled the situation and made herself a symbol for others out there. NOT because she was in the situation in the first place. She made one of the worst decisions she will ever make her entire life, but what she got for it was more than just the typical walk of shame the next day after being blackout drunk. She got a mental scar, physical evidence of forceful penetration, distrust for her peers, and then got dragged through court and had to relive it.

She is handling this situation in a much more mature and better way than most, and the way you are approaching it is kind of like you are blaming her. This is the same thing as defending the idiot who put his hands on her, and it's just wrong. So yes, in a way you are certainly defending the guy for what he did simply because you do not agree with what the woman did. I wouldn't approve of my kids drinking, doing drugs, anything illegal, PERIOD. But if they ever made a mistake (which many are liable to do) like this and something like this happened to them, I would be horrified. But then to have them turn it around into something positive for everyone else to look to and to understand, and experience from without ever actually having the experience themselves is pretty damn heroic in my mind. So I am and would be extremely proud of my kid for handling this situation in such a way that others can learn from it, and draw courage to speak out from it.

Exactly this, he knocks her for being drunk but he should be let off for also being drunk, well put.

Keep up the lies, man.



naruball said:
dongo8 said:

I actually agree with Wyrdness. You say you're not defending him but in the same post you are basically saying it is her fault for getting blackout drunk. She made a mistake, one that she will obviously never repeat, but it does not excuse his actions in any way, shape or form. I was saying I would be the most proud person ever of her because of the way she handled the situation and made herself a symbol for others out there. NOT because she was in the situation in the first place. She made one of the worst decisions she will ever make her entire life, but what she got for it was more than just the typical walk of shame the next day after being blackout drunk. She got a mental scar, physical evidence of forceful penetration, distrust for her peers, and then got dragged through court and had to relive it.

She is handling this situation in a much more mature and better way than most, and the way you are approaching it is kind of like you are blaming her. This is the same thing as defending the idiot who put his hands on her, and it's just wrong. So yes, in a way you are certainly defending the guy for what he did simply because you do not agree with what the woman did. I wouldn't approve of my kids drinking, doing drugs, anything illegal, PERIOD. But if they ever made a mistake (which many are liable to do) like this and something like this happened to them, I would be horrified. But then to have them turn it around into something positive for everyone else to look to and to understand, and experience from without ever actually having the experience themselves is pretty damn heroic in my mind. So I am and would be extremely proud of my kid for handling this situation in such a way that others can learn from it, and draw courage to speak out from it.

1. You're really not reading what I am saying.

2. Of course you're not saying that you'd be proud if your daughter was raped, that'd be crazy.

3. "It's 100% the rapist's fault". Is that clear? Yes? Great.

Now let's move to another topic, completely unrelated to the RAPE that happened. Heavy drinking. Heavy drinking can lead to a number of thinks including the death of the person who drinks or the deaths of others. It is bad on its own. Again, it doesn't have to do anything with the rape. I'm examining it as seprate thing.

Let's say that your son, James, goes to a bar; he gets really drunk and another guy starts a fight with him for no reason and he can't defend himself or run away, as he is intoxicated. He gets stubbed and goes to the hospital where he learns he won't be able to walk again. Is that his fault? NO! It is the person's who attacked him. But as a father wouldn't you wish he were more careful like you taght him? James leaves the hospital after a certain time and goes around schools telling students about the dangers of heavy drinking and dodgy bars (and speaks against violence). You feel proud of him.

You have another son, Nate. Nate went out the same day but to a bar with better reputation and had one drink. He rememebered what you taught him so he made sure he stayed out of trouble (i.e. by not drinking too much). He always listens to you. He comes home and finds out about his brother, James. He tries to do everything he can to comfort him. A few days later you read James' statement and feel very proud of him for the way he expressed himself/dealt with the situation.  

Who are you more proud of? James, who was unlucky to have someone almost kill him even though it wasn't his fault, but who also drank too much and went to a dodgy place, or of Nate who listened to you? Nate was never given the CHANCE to make you that "proud" for the very simple reason that he was careful, as you taught him.

It's not the did do, or didn't do. It's the handling of the aftermath of the situation, she is handling it wonderfully. Also, getting stabbed is nowhere near a apples to apples comparison to getting raped. You don't feel ashamed to go out to the world and tell them that you were stabbed by some dirtbag, because they would think that the other person is just an angry jerk. When raped, however you don't feel you can trust anyone any more, and you feel ashamed to tell others because you feel less of yourself just talking about it. Rape has no equivalent. What if she wasn't drunk? This happens to others when they are not drunk, they are just walking across campus, or out alone somewhere, get held at knifepoint, gunpoint, etc, or get overpowered. It's entirely possible that she could have gotten raped sober too.

I'm not for what she did when she drank so heavily that she couldn't remember anything. I am FOR the way that she came out and faced it head on and showed just how it feels to be this victim. This is something that you never see, you never know the stories BEHIND what happens, so it is not only refreshing, but it is empowering and creates a sense of pride and understanding that you don't generally feel for rape victims because YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. So stop trying to spin it like "I'd be more proud of the kid who DOESN'T do anything dumb". Of course you would expect and want as a parent for your kid to be as smart and safe as possible. Young people make bad decisions though, and it is what they do AFTER those bad decisions that really shows just what kind of person they are.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

The entire thing makes my blood boil.

Now, I don't want this young man to be physically hurt or raped in prison. But I do want him to be held accountable for his crime.

It definitely seems like the judge, a Stanford alum, bent over backward to issue a lenient sentence - which does a disservice to the victim, the perpetrator, and the justice system.

And while I understand the spontaneous love every parent has for his/her child, there's no way to justify this crime. Explaining a sexual assault away because it lasted 20 minutes is the height of arrogance, ignorance, and callousness. 

All three - the young man, the judge, and the father - should feel ashamed.

I hope the victim - who seems like a brave, empathetic, and intelligent person - finds peace.



SuaveSocialist said:
hershel_layton said:

While he gets 6 months, someone I know is getting 5 years just for owning marijuana.


Smh.

Wha-a-a-a-at?

In what universe does THAT make sense!?

Called the US justice system

 Fricken pisses me off. He's super stressed out and isn't even guaranteed 5 years. He may get up to ten.

 

If owning weed gets you more than 5 to ten years, but rapists get less than a year, then it's clear something is wrong 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

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dongo8 said:
naruball said:

1. You're really not reading what I am saying.

2. Of course you're not saying that you'd be proud if your daughter was raped, that'd be crazy.

3. "It's 100% the rapist's fault". Is that clear? Yes? Great.

Now let's move to another topic, completely unrelated to the RAPE that happened. Heavy drinking. Heavy drinking can lead to a number of thinks including the death of the person who drinks or the deaths of others. It is bad on its own. Again, it doesn't have to do anything with the rape. I'm examining it as seprate thing.

Let's say that your son, James, goes to a bar; he gets really drunk and another guy starts a fight with him for no reason and he can't defend himself or run away, as he is intoxicated. He gets stubbed and goes to the hospital where he learns he won't be able to walk again. Is that his fault? NO! It is the person's who attacked him. But as a father wouldn't you wish he were more careful like you taght him? James leaves the hospital after a certain time and goes around schools telling students about the dangers of heavy drinking and dodgy bars (and speaks against violence). You feel proud of him.

You have another son, Nate. Nate went out the same day but to a bar with better reputation and had one drink. He rememebered what you taught him so he made sure he stayed out of trouble (i.e. by not drinking too much). He always listens to you. He comes home and finds out about his brother, James. He tries to do everything he can to comfort him. A few days later you read James' statement and feel very proud of him for the way he expressed himself/dealt with the situation.  

Who are you more proud of? James, who was unlucky to have someone almost kill him even though it wasn't his fault, but who also drank too much and went to a dodgy place, or of Nate who listened to you? Nate was never given the CHANCE to make you that "proud" for the very simple reason that he was careful, as you taught him.

It's not the did do, or didn't do. It's the handling of the aftermath of the situation, she is handling it wonderfully. Also, getting stabbed is nowhere near a apples to apples comparison to getting raped. You don't feel ashamed to go out to the world and tell them that you were stabbed by some dirtbag, because they would think that the other person is just an angry jerk. When raped, however you don't feel you can trust anyone any more, and you feel ashamed to tell others because you feel less of yourself just talking about it. Rape has no equivalent. What if she wasn't drunk? This happens to others when they are not drunk, they are just walking across campus, or out alone somewhere, get held at knifepoint, gunpoint, etc, or get overpowered. It's entirely possible that she could have gotten raped sober too.

I'm not for what she did when she drank so heavily that she couldn't remember anything. I am FOR the way that she came out and faced it head on and showed just how it feels to be this victim. This is something that you never see, you never know the stories BEHIND what happens, so it is not only refreshing, but it is empowering and creates a sense of pride and understanding that you don't generally feel for rape victims because YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. So stop trying to spin it like "I'd be more proud of the kid who DOESN'T do anything dumb". Of course you would expect and want as a parent for your kid to be as smart and safe as possible. Young people make bad decisions though, and it is what they do AFTER those bad decisions that really shows just what kind of person they are.

I get aaaaall that. I truly do. Never disagreed with you in terms of the way she handled it, or that he is a rapist, or that she could have gotten raped sober.

I simply don't agree with putting her on a pedestal. She could be a terrible (or an amazing) person who wrote (or someone else wrote for her) a great statement. For me that alone doesn't deserve the title of a superhero. Someone who has shown they are a great person throughout their lives does. She hasn't demonstrated enough. Celebrities write inspirational statements all the time (in terms of drugs, fame, depression). It doesn't make them superheroes to me. Male celebrities have come out (Wentworth Miller, Colton Haynes) and talked about their fight against depression I(embrassing apparently for me), others about being raped. But what else have they done? The closest thing to celebrity being a superhero (as far as I'm concerned) is Angelina Jolie. Since her relationhsip with Brad Pitt she's been consistently a role model in many areas of her life helping people throughout the world (through actions not just words). Statements are not enough for me.

But feel free to feel differently.

You didn't answer which son you'd be more proud of, but at this point, I don't think you care about addressing it, so let's just leave it at that.



naruball said:
curl-6 said:

Gee, my mistake, I forgot that raping unconscious women is just fine. It's how you get them to the location that matters.

That's exactly the point I was addressing. Guess it's fine to pull facts out of your behind because someone committed a crime.

Where in Hell did I say the bolded? Read my post again. I was clear that he deserves to be punushed and that it was in no way fine. But don't let facts get in your way.

You chose to sidestep the point entirely by focussing on a nitpick. And you're trying to soften the portrayal of a convicted rapist. You keep saying you're "not defending him", yet you continue to try to downplay his actions.



Dad probably watches hentai and worships japan.



If I had a son or daughter, I'd let them rot in jail!



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

curl-6 said:
naruball said:

That's exactly the point I was addressing. Guess it's fine to pull facts out of your behind because someone committed a crime.

Where in Hell did I say the bolded? Read my post again. I was clear that he deserves to be punushed and that it was in no way fine. But don't let facts get in your way.

You chose to sidestep the point entirely by focussing on a nitpick. And you're trying to soften the portrayal of a convicted rapist. You keep saying you're "not defending him", yet you continue to try to downplay his actions.

Call it a nitpick or whatever makes you feel better. You were clearly wrong, I pointed it out and instead of maning up and admitting you made a mistake you accused me of something I didn't say. If by downplaying, you mean sticking to the facts and not adding any of mine like you did, then sure. Honestly, dude. I'm done here. Do whatever you want.