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Forums - Politics Discussion - Clinton has clinched nomination-Also, Clinton or Trump?

As a minority, why would I ever vote for a Republican candidate, let alone Donald Trump?

Hillary all the way.



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Zappykins said:
Scisca said:

I've read over half of it and haven't found anything that changes my opinion that he's the best candidate - to the contrary, he only gained extra points in my eyes. He was born in Canada? Oh please. At least this time it's on your continent. He's religious? Good. He's bad for women? No, he's bad for feminists - and that's yet another point for Mr. Cruz. There aren't many things I enjoy more than watching Milo Yiannopoulos destroy and humiliate them Climate change? We know it's bullshit. It's nice to care about the climate and USA could start to control itself a bit more, but going overboard (like we're doing it in Europe) is even more stupid.

So yeah, can't see anything that puts me off.

But the bottom line is, he's the only guy who puts it straight, that Putin is a threat to Europe and that USA can't leave Europe alone, cause the German-Russia duo are starting to stir shit up over here again. And unfortunately, that is the bloody truth. When I hear Clinton talking pro-Russian bullshit, saying they'll lift the sanctions, take troops from here or on other ocasions they are straight up attacking and insulting my country - the only country in whole Europe that actually wants to be your allies - all this makes me think that she has absolutely no idea about what's going on in Europe and should she win, it can get really ugly really fast.

@Military spendings - I know all that. But are you aware that you spend this money... In USA, right? So this money helps finance American companies, research, science, etc. How many people would lose jobs? Quite a lot I think. And your position in the world would start to deteriorate, which would hit your trade and economy as well. I mean, you've got China on the rise, challenging you everywhere, going back now is the stupidest thing you could do. Your fleet is the only thing that keeps you where you are.

Wow, you aren't doing anything to help the argument that Pollond is one of the more backwards thinking countries in Europe. 

Actually, religion has no place in the US Government, it's one of our founding principles (along with getting rid of Kings and Queen.)  Fundamentalist have snuck bits of it in there in the last 100 years, but it doesn't belong.  I think the way he puts his particular religion above government makes him unqualified.  (What’s to stop him for sending in ‘freedom’ to stop the unchristian Catholics in Poland – and yes most US Fundamentalist Baptist type Christians do not consider Catholics as the same religion.)

Don't like equal rights?  Wow, how does other people having equal rights hurt you in any way.

And yes, you have to be born in the USA to serve as president, unless you fall under some odd situation as McCain did.

But fortuantely, Cruz is out and hopefully soon he will be forgotten.

I get your point about Russia.  I think Clinton knows more about it than Trump in many, many ways. 

Do you realize how much waste is spend on the military?  There is so much waste.  They buy stuff just to let it rot so they will not lose the money next year.

 

http://www.onlinemilitaryeducation.org/secret-side/

It's a funny situation. Western leftists constantly spread bs about Poland being "backwards thinking", etc. while when we look at the West, we see regressive, ignorant fools. It's a problem you have in the West, that you ignorantly assume that anyone who isn't following your example is "behind", suggesting that some day, once we finally grow smarter, we'll follow your way. You can't fathom the notion that we're not "behind", but instead we took a different route and quite frankly, I think we are getting "ahead" of you now, as we've managed to avoid many problems that you are currently struggling with. When I look at what's going on in the West as of late (feminazis in US campuses, muslim crisis in Europe), I have no doubt our choice is in many instances much better, so don't blame me for wanting America to follow this wiser path of sanity.

You're asking me how people having equal rights hurts me? I'm sorry, but I'm the one who should ask this question. I take equal rights as a given, that's why I'm against feminists and other regresive leftist bs, which is fighting against equality and instead introduces censorship, hatred, prejudice, tries to divide people into groups and sets them against each other. How can any sane person support this destructive bs? It's cancer, I'm glad it's not present in my country and I'd be happier if POTUS was against that madness - like Cruz or Trump are.

I know we're given the worst labels for not following the leftist agenda, we are very religious - the most in EU for sure, patriarchy is rampant in everyday life and we shamelessly see nothing wrong with it. This surely has to result in hell for women, full of inequalities, right? At least that's what leftist propaganda tells you. Funnily enough, according to the Eurostat, the sex paygap in Poland is the fourth lowest in EU. We're ahead of every single of the "modern, tolerant and equal" countries (including US). Domestic violence against women? Second lowest in EU (half of the European average), only Slovenia is slighly ahead (so again, no "modern Western country" is better). The current and previous Prime Ministers are women, while our first female PM was elected in 1992 (we've been independent since 1989). So explain to me again, how are we "backwards thinking"? To give you visual example, half a year ago, the final debate before the elections:

PM candidates:

Reporters leading the debate:

4 women, 1 man in the final debate about the future of the country. How is that possible in the land of catholic patriarchy? Food for thought.

That is the thing, we don't need feminists and the leftist ideology, they have nothing to offer us. Their movement can't gain any traction here and it pisses the leftist activists off, so we get a lot of bad press - like the festival of ignorance from Francois Hollande a few days ago, or absurd accusation made by Bill Clinton recently. Leftist ignorants are gonna be ignorant and keep throwing shit at us, but don't be ignorant like that, being religious and traditional in no way means any of the bad things leftist propaganda forces you to believe. That is why I'm not at all discouraged from supporting Cruz by what you're saying and the links you gave me. The fact that President is religious, doesn't mean the country is suddenly a religious state. It doesn't work the way you described it either - somehow I'm sure freedom invasion based on religion wouldn't be a threat to anyone The fact someone disagrees with feminists doesn't mean he's against equality (on the contrary in fact). Such arguments won't convince me, cause I know for a fact they are completely false.

I know money is wasted in millitary. But get this - to some extent, it always is wasted, in other sectors as well. There is always some part of money that goes to waste, it's sad but it's inevitable. If you think that a new guy can suddenly walk in and change all of this by eliminating only the spendings that go to waste and keeping the rest intact, then you are very naive. That's not how life works.

Again though, I think Cruz has the best grasp on the Russian situation, while Hilary is openly pro-Russian, which is very scary for Europe. Trump is kind of a mystery (wouldn't you know? ), but I think should he become President, he'd be much more reasonable here. I'd rather take the risk of him making an unbiased checks and balances judgment, than Hilary making decisions basing on her ideology.



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Primethius said:
As a minority, why would I ever vote for a Republican candidate, let alone Donald Trump?

Hillary all the way.

Maybe unlike the Democrats that take the minority vote for granted, the Republican party can be pressured by minorities to cater to their interests if they were to switch their votes?

The issue I see for minorities is that their grievances aren't really being addressed by the Democrats as the party rightfully assume that they will receive the minority vote while the republican party doesn't bother due to the fact that it views the minority vote out of reach.

So in a way the minorities of the US are doing themselves a disservice by not being politically more promiscuous.



 

 

Final-Fan said:
Branko2166 said:
Firstly I'm an Australian so I cannot vote in the US general election.
Hypothetically though if I could vote I would vote for Trump.

I have a few reasons for this. Hillary has shown time and again that she is a hawk on foreign policy and an incompetent one at that. She voted for the Iraq war and presided over the Benghazi screw up. Furthermore she has continuously demonstrated her willingness to lie to the American people. In addition she is clearly the establishment candidate as the undemocratic no pun intended super-delegate support for her illustrates.

As for Trump, one thing we know for sure is that he is not part of the establishment. It seems obvious that the only reason he succeeded is due to the disfranchisement of the average republican voter. Also once you get past his coloruful language you may realise that he is not the second coming of Hitler as he is portrayed in much of the media including that of Australia. The insinuation that Trump can somehow kick out millions of people if he becomes president is ludicrous hyperbole as the US system contains within it substantial checks and balances which in turn makes it virtually impossible to act like a dictator.
And finally one of the main reasons I would vote for Trump is that he says what's on his mind. He provides a realistic view of America's problems and that is refreshing when compared to others who are perfectly aware of the issues but refuse to even recognise that America is caught up in an economic and social spiral.

For the record though I believe Hillary will win and the world will have to put up with the second Clinton dynasty. That will in turn lead to more wars internationally while the social cohesion of America further deteriorates on the domestic front.

Three quick points. 
1.  If Bernie had more delegates and/or more popular vote I am pretty sure the superdelegates would back him; he does not have either, so they won't.  Even if you disagree about what they would do if Bernie was ahead with the people, the fact remains that he isn't and won't be by the time of the convention, so I wouldn't say they made the result undemocratic in this case (or historically). 

2.  Having as President a man who is trying as hard as possible to be a dictator is bad even if he is doomed to fail; I reject your argument on this ground. 

3.  Saying what's on your mind is in and of itself a good thing but when what's on your mind is horrible that doesn't make a good potential President. 

"I would bring back waterboarding, and I’d bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding." - Donald Trump

I agree somewhat with your first counterpoint. Hillary did win the popular vote in hindsight. However unless I'm mistaken the superdelegates had opted for Hillary pretty much from the start.

Your second point is unsubstantiated. You have made an absolute statement without providing evidence. From the empirical evidence I can see that Trump is partaking in a democratic political process and has defeated the establishment candidates in spite of the republican party's resistance. Unlike the democrats however, they did not have the added buffer of superdelegates. I get that you are opposed to Trump but you cannot simply dismiss the democratic expression of voters that voted for him just because you do not like the guy. As of yet nothing he has done can be said to support the notion that he is attempting to become a dictator.

Your third point is purely subjective. Trump has indeed made a number of silly statements but has pretty much reigned most of that in since it became apparent that he was the frontrunner on the Republican side. Once you get beyond the rhetoric though I think that a lot of what he talks about does have merit.

A quick review - "Let's make America great again" - It seems evident that America has allowed its industry to become outsourced and is teetering economically due to its crushing debt. Socially it has been a long time since the country has been so polarised. Therefore I agree with the premise of the  statement.

"I will build a great wall" - I don't think anyone took this quote seriously. A logical argument can be made that he is simply talking about strengthening border controls which appear unable to cope with the massive illegal flow of migrants from Mexico.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending they're not sending the best" - While this may come across as offensive he is essentially right in the sense that those that cross the border illegally aren't exactly the best that Mexico has to offer as they were unable to immigrate legally. That can be the result of a number of reasons including insufficient qualifications or indeed a criminal record.

I will leave it at that for now but we can see that although what Trump says is often colourful and very much politically incorrect, what he says is often backed up by the facts on the ground.



 

 

Branko2166 said:
Primethius said:
As a minority, why would I ever vote for a Republican candidate, let alone Donald Trump?

Hillary all the way.

Maybe unlike the Democrats that take the minority vote for granted, the Republican party can be pressured by minorities to cater to their interests if they were to switch their votes?

The issue I see for minorities is that their grievances aren't really being addressed by the Democrats as the party rightfully assume that they will receive the minority vote while the republican party doesn't bother due to the fact that it views the minority vote out of reach.

So in a way the minorities of the US are doing themselves a disservice by not being politically more promiscuous.

 

Right, the party filled with racists who are parading an open racist are going to be pressured by minority voters who they have no problem readily dismissing and have done so over the past few elections and this one.

 

Gimme a break. And don't pretend to talk down to me by acting as if minority voters are doing ourselves a disservice. We are voting just fine. For the party thatisn't filled with bigots nor openly hates us.



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go trump! hillary is a lying,criminal!!



Primethius said:
Branko2166 said:

Maybe unlike the Democrats that take the minority vote for granted, the Republican party can be pressured by minorities to cater to their interests if they were to switch their votes?

The issue I see for minorities is that their grievances aren't really being addressed by the Democrats as the party rightfully assume that they will receive the minority vote while the republican party doesn't bother due to the fact that it views the minority vote out of reach.

So in a way the minorities of the US are doing themselves a disservice by not being politically more promiscuous.

 

Right, the party filled with racists who are parading an open racist are going to be pressured by minority voters who they have no problem readily dismissing and have done so over the past few elections and this one.

 

Gimme a break. And don't pretend to talk down to me by acting as if minority voters are doing ourselves a disservice. We are voting just fine. For the party thatisn't filled with bigots nor openly hates us.

The reason they may dismiss minorities as you say is because they know that based on historical trends they vote overwhelmingly for the democrats so therefore they don't even bother putting in the effort . As for the democrats what have they done to improve the socio-economic situation of the minority community? Especially when considering the deteriorating race relations in the states.

As for me I'm sorry you feel like I was "talking down" to you as I was merely suggesting the things I did in the hope that you may see alternatives. Although I am white I am in fact a cultural minority in Australia being from Eastern Europe. I had to learn a new language and adapt to a new culture. With regards to voting I don't give my allegience to any party except the one that caters most to my interests at the time of the vote. I am not suggesting that you vote republican necessarily but merely that the party that you vote for should not be a given. Take that as you will and take care.

edit- And if the issue is something you consider a white person being unable to comment on then I suggest having a look at this video.

 



 

 

Super delegates can still change their minds when it's time for them to vote on July 25th.

In other words, Hillary hasn't won. The mainstream media is just doing what it does best. Brainwash.



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Branko2166 said:
Primethius said:

 

Right, the party filled with racists who are parading an open racist are going to be pressured by minority voters who they have no problem readily dismissing and have done so over the past few elections and this one.

 

Gimme a break. And don't pretend to talk down to me by acting as if minority voters are doing ourselves a disservice. We are voting just fine. For the party thatisn't filled with bigots nor openly hates us.

The reason they may dismiss minorities as you say is because they know that based on historical trends they vote overwhelmingly for the democrats so therefore they don't even bother putting in the effort . As for the democrats what have they done to improve the socio-economic situation of the minority community? Especially when considering the deteriorating race relations in the states.

As for me I'm sorry you feel like I was "talking down" to you as I was merely suggesting the things I did in the hope that you may see alternatives. Although I am white I am in fact a cultural minority in Australia being from Eastern Europe. I had to learn a new language and adapt to a new culture. With regards to voting I don't give my allegience to any party except the one that caters most to my interests at the time of the vote. I am not suggesting that you vote republican necessarily but merely that the party that you vote for should not be a given. Take that as you will and take care.

edit- And if the issue is something you consider a white person being unable to comment on then I suggest having a look at this video.

 

I'm sure you have good intentions but I don't think you understand how racist and filled with hatred the Republican party is. Just look at Trump, who is representing them on the grand stage.

 

As for race relations, when they often break down, it's typically Republican vs minority.



They are both really bad candidates. Too bad there is no good option.