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Forums - General Discussion - Should kids have a chance to grow up and decide what gender they are, or should parents change their sex early on?

People saying they are a different gender other than what they are born in is about as sensible as me saying tomorrow that I identify as a Platypus. Parents don't tell their kids the gender that they are, they treat their kids the gender they are born into. You want to have surgery and try to change things up, I can't legally stop you from doing that, but you have no right to get all upset, ticked off, and threaten to sue people for the remainder of your life simply because the rest of the world isn't attempting to accommodate your every desire.

I'm sick of hearing about people getting sued by members of the LGTB community because they don't want to use their 100% privately owned business to do things for people that violate their religious beliefs (and most of these LGTB people doing this seem to be doing it intentionally and then claiming "emotional distress" just to crush Christians and other groups just because they hate anyone who is different than them).
I'm also sick of the fact that the emotional stability of an incredibly small portion of the human race is more important than the actual physical safety of women in bathrooms.
And the worst part about all this? It is only going to get worse. I'm sure, 200 years ago, no body imagined this ever being a thing in the world. And I'm sure, 200 years from now (if we are all still living in this present state of being), the world will be doing things we can't even imagine today.



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TallSilhouette said:
Jesus Christ, people. Stop confusing sex with gender.

Gender
1. Either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior.
2. A similar category of human beings that is outside the male/female binary classification and is based on the individual's personal awareness or identity.

Sex is physical, gender is cultural. A person can be physically born as one sex but feel and identify as the other. It's hardly any more of a choice for them than their sexuality is (you don't still think homosexuality is a choice, do you?).

Gender is dependent on our sex, our sex is not dependent on our gender. We are a biological species only, and we develop sociological behaviours as a result of our biology. These behaviours are not made consciously but through processes in our bodies through our entire life. When we are asked at the hospital what gender our newborn child is, we give the physical answer, which in biology is referred to as our "sex".

If a person later in life decides to have a social gender that is different from their sex, that is that persons choice. But being a young individual, their brains have not developed enough to know consequences of their choices and what their identity is. For parents in that case to not making the decision for the child that they find the most appropriate, is lazy and irresponsible.



I don't think anybody should be able to go through gender reassignment therapy until they are at the legal age of sexual consent, and only per their decision (a parent can't decide.) Sure, I know it looks more natural if you start a kid at 12, but a 12 year old really doesn't have the mental faculties to be certain about their preferred gender. This is especially true if you believe in things like gender-fluidity. The negative health risks also must be considered, and a 12 year old just isn't really considering that. Wait until they are 16-18 years old, and I am sure many trans women and men can become beautiful and happy with themselves regardless of when they start.



Ka-pi96 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Are you really trying to argue this?

Women have breasts that often times contain milk right after giving birth which she can use to feed the baby. A guy can't feed an infant without something else's milk or without formulae. Women are naturally more suited to being the primary caretaker of a child. Evolution made it that way.

From the moment of fertilization, a woman carries the baby to term, gives birth, feeds the baby naturally and takes care of the child while the male can do anything he wants. A guy can't do any that except provide food for the mother and place for her stay with the child. 

I'm not saying that women are better suited to raise kids in every situation. Some women can be horrible parents. I'm also not saying that guys can't be good parents or that they can't raise a kid by themselves. 

Is that it? Only pre birth and as a baby stuff? What about the actual raising?

You said a woman is better at raising from infant to adult. If milk is all she can offer then what benefit is that to anything other than an infant? In fact if she is still breastfeeding up until they are an adult then that's not really a good thing.

You also said the kid would be better off if raised by a woman than a man. Now I highly doubt a man would just let his baby starve, and whether other milk/formula is as good as natural breast milk is a whole nother topic. But the raise part specifically suggests a whole lot more than feeding as a baby. So yeah, how is a woman actually better at raising a child to adulthood?

Women have evolved to be the main caretaker for children. That's why I listed those examples to show my point to you. They're wired for it mentally and emotionally. Before they're even teenagers, they dream of having babies. Males for the most part don't ever think about having babies til a woman says she's pregnant or when he's trying to have one. So you're asking me to prove the accepted belief on which gender is better suited (overall) to raise a kid?  I wasn't even expecting someone to actually debate me on this.  The vast majority of the judges in the US will rule in favor of the woman over the guy in custody battles. 

Women by default are better at raising kids than guys. That doesn't mean that a gay couple shouldn't raise a kid or that single guys shouldn't raise a kid by himself. 

You're the one challenging the most common held belief in the world that women are considered the best suited for raising a child. The burden of proof is really on you. 



tinfamous12 said:
If someone wants to change their sex that is entirely up to them and does not mean they have any serious psychological problems.

It is a psychological problem if they "feel" like they are in the wrong body considering one cannot know what it is like to feel other than themselves...

If a perfectly competent individual wants to become the opposite sex through surgery, this should be denied due to the hypocratic oath.



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DannyDesario said:

 I don't like being judgmental or insensitive, but someone who pretends to be someone he or she is not is not being true to themselves in my opinion. They are uncomfortable with the life they are blessed with (to a literal extent, not even religiously), as there are so many unfortunate people in the world that grow up in poverty, born with diseases and missing limbs, ect. So no, while I do support Gay people and gay rights, I am not an advocate of electing genders, someone electing his or her gender is inconsequential to me so I personally don't care.

When you have met and worked alongside someone who's physical sex is at odds with their gender identity, when you've witnessed the psychological and social anguish it causes them, when you've watched the painful, several-years-long transition through hormone therapy and surgery to realign themselves physically, when you've observed the result to be the same person, but happier, more at one with themselves, and in a gender context that actually makes sense compared with the one they were born in, you'll understand.

I'm not directing this as a slight to you personally for your opinion - I didn't understand why people felt the need to reassign their gender, either. Now, having seen it for myself, I do understand.

One thing I would point out, though, is that someone who finds themself in this situation is not pretending to be someone he or she is not. In the case that I witnessed, the person was brave enough to accept rejection from her family and her female partner so that she could be true to herself and become male. And in fact, after it was all done, his family took him back and accepted him as a son.

In response to the question raised by the OP, and based on the knowledge that hormones can do some pretty strange things during puberty and adolescence, I believe that in general, it's a decision that should be made by the individual when they are adult.



jason1637 said:
Darama said:

....right...Men who want to become a woman and vice versa are perfectly sane...

A Man who feels like there a female is perfectly sane. The same applies vice versa.

what about a man that feels he is a dog?

or feels that he is supposed to be parapalegic, and wants to cut off his legs.

is that sane



 

Dulfite said:
People saying they are a different gender other than what they are born in is about as sensible as me saying tomorrow that I identify as a Platypus. Parents don't tell their kids the gender that they are, they treat their kids the gender they are born into. You want to have surgery and try to change things up, I can't legally stop you from doing that, but you have no right to get all upset, ticked off, and threaten to sue people for the remainder of your life simply because the rest of the world isn't attempting to accommodate your every desire.

I'm sick of hearing about people getting sued by members of the LGTB community because they don't want to use their 100% privately owned business to do things for people that violate their religious beliefs (and most of these LGTB people doing this seem to be doing it intentionally and then claiming "emotional distress" just to crush Christians and other groups just because they hate anyone who is different than them).
I'm also sick of the fact that the emotional stability of an incredibly small portion of the human race is more important than the actual physical safety of women in bathrooms.
And the worst part about all this? It is only going to get worse. I'm sure, 200 years ago, no body imagined this ever being a thing in the world. And I'm sure, 200 years from now (if we are all still living in this present state of being), the world will be doing things we can't even imagine today.

It definitely will get worse. However, this is nothing new in the world. It is just more open and accepted nowadays. Unfortunately being religious, especially Christian, will eventually be considered a hate group and be persecuted.



Ka-pi96 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Women have evolved to be the main caretaker for children. That's why I listed those examples to show my point to you. They're wired for it mentally and emotionally. Before they're even teenagers, they dream of having babies. Males for the most part don't ever think about having babies til a woman says she's pregnant or when he's trying to have one. So you're asking me to prove the accepted belief on which gender is better suited (overall) to raise a kid?  I wasn't even expecting someone to actually debate me on this.  The vast majority of the judges in the US will rule in favor of the woman over the guy in custody battles. 

Women by default are better at raising kids than guys. That doesn't mean that a gay couple shouldn't raise a kid or that single guys shouldn't raise a kid by himself. 

You're the one challenging the most common held belief in the world that women are considered the best suited for raising a child. The burden of proof is really on you. 

A 'common held belief' doesn't make something factual. There are countless 'common held beliefs' which have been completely discarded or disproved.

As for the women dreaming of babies, not only is that not entirely true, since there are women who just don't want children at all and likewise men that do plan on having children long before their wife/girlfriend is pregnant, but dreaming of doing something and actually being good at it are two different things. How many children dream of being an athlete or a famous actor or something? Wanting to do something doesn't affect one's ability to actually do it.

Custody using going to the mother by default? Yeah, that's called sexism. Discriminating against one gender just because they think the other one is better at something with no actual proof. Pretty sure people have been fighting against that kind discrimination for years in other places, maybe it's about time they did something about it there too. Sure you may have the breastmilk argument if the child is still a baby, but I'd expect the majority of custody cases are for childern older than that rendering that point moot.

As someone who raised by a single father I have all the proof I need already. And to be perfectly honest I find your suggestion that it's a fact I would have been better off with a woman than with my father quite insulting.

I think that you're misunderstanding me, Ka-pi96. Perhaps this topic hits too close to home and that's why you're not seeing the point I'm trying to make. In no way did I say that a child is better off being raised by a woman versus a guy. I said that women are better suited for raising kids (as in nature gave them the tools to do so). There's a important distinction there. 

I'll try to put it another way. Person A is naturally gifted at playing soccer/football compared to Person B but that doesn't mean that Person A is a better player than Person B. You're taking offense when there's no offense to be taken. 



binary solo said:
Shackkobe said:

semi-Fact # 1.

You cannot choose your sex, it is decided naturally at conception.

 

Opinion # 1.

If anyone believes they are trapped in the wrong body they have a serious psychological problem and need to seek help immediately.

 

Fallacy #1.

Pretending to be of the opposite sex or mutilating your body will NEVER enable you to change what is biologically set.

 

Fallacy #2.

The fact that we are actually struggling with understanding these basic biological facts is indicative of serious brainwashing.

 

Ummm #1.

Some individuals will believe that I am the one who is brainwashed and reject every single fact that I said above because it is unpleasant to them.

 

 

 

Nothing you've written is actually factual.

It is a fact that genetically you are either XY or XX or XXY or XXX at conception. But that does not guarantee you wil be born with a penis or a vag, and it certainly does not predetermine your gender identity which has nothing to do with body parts and is all about your own self image, which of course does not exist at the point of conception because you have no brain at that moment capable of formulating thoughts of self image.

Are you a physchologist or psychiatrist with a speciality in this area? If not you are not competent to diagnose the psychological state of anyone. Medical sience does not recognise trans-gender as being a mental illness, so on what basis do you make a claim of fact?

We change what is biologically "set" all the time, at the extreme end we have actual genetic modification, and at the milder end we have gene therapy. Then we have stem cell treatments and other interventions that alter the way someone has been biologically programmed. There is no reason whatsoever that in not too much time it will be possible to turn a male into a fully fertile female able to conceive and carry in the traditonal manner and a female into a fully fertile male able to get a woman pregnane in the traditional manner.

Naturally given you haven't stated any actual facts your suggestion of mass brainwashing must ipso facto be false.

Your final statement of course becomes nonsensical in the face of the complete lack of any facts in your preceding statements.

What makes yours factual? You think what some group of scientists put down is always true?

Bradley Manning after going to prison decides a sex change. what does this got to do with chromozones or self image?

Some bookworks are usesless and misleading which would be realized with time by then the harm has been caused.



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