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Forums - Politics Discussion - Economic migrants from Africa flooding Europe! This needs to stop!

 

Your thoughts?

Yes, these people aren't... 111 54.68%
 
No, they're refugees, an... 49 24.14%
 
We shouldn't encourage t... 43 21.18%
 
Total:203
Nautilus said:
barneystinson69 said:

But why exactly? How about we actually fix the root of the problem, which is these countries are piss poor! Encourage having less children, encourage women to work, encourage people to fight for fair wages! Get the corrupt leaders and banks off the backs of these people, and fight for a better country! Look at South Africa, it has its problems but its far better than most of the continent! 

Its because the country is so deep in sh*t, with corrupted politicians, ignorant people, or are in a so extreme porvety that they simply do not care.Some country, like Congo, is basically a big Mafia center.Many of those countries culture(and please dont bash me for it) has never had the concept, like most first world countries have, that you should work honestly and do your best to get yourself out of the situation.Or it is so deep in corruption, that nothing short of a war will take them out of it.There are some that had bad luck, im pretty sure, but many are liek this now because of its own people and its own legacy.Its a complicated mess.

You know, the big problem is Congo is being exploited by the EU, the US and China for it's vast material resources. China builds some infrastructure, bribes some politicians and BAM, lots of metal. The people of Congo HAVE political conscience, even a rich history of political participation. But when so many powers have so many interests in your country, it's hard to fight the institution which keeps your country from developing.



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barneystinson69 said:

Equal rights and chances? That's BS! You've seen just how welcoming Europe has been, they don't want to integrate! Why do they isolate themselves from society and try to have their own laws! Its not that Europe hasn't been nice to these people, but that you haven't forced them to assimilate! In NA, you WILL asssimilate, or you won't be welcomed. Europe has FAILED to do this, and no amount of equal rights will make a difference. I hope you realize this, but its clear you'll fight me on it to the very end. I'm more than willing to engage in meaningful discussion, but I hope you're willing to at least consider changing your opinion. 

You are completely oblivious to what the live of an immigrant is in Europe. Have you spoken with them? Have you seen what hardships can come over them? Have you read about the economic discrimination these people have to endure? Have you heard the repeated assaults from fascist nutjobs?

Why do you think these people huddle together in communities? It's their biggest shot at getting security. And even then, a LOT of immagrants are doing their best, running businesses, supporting their communities and inter-cultural dialogue, helping seeking solutions to the problems that plague our society.

I'll fight you to the end alright. But you will find my opinion to be unwavering. I've seen this kind of sh*t for too long, talking about a grave subject like this with only a colelction of right populist opinions to throw about.

You will find me on ALL topics like this.



KLXVER said:
Nautilus said:

I just explained why....

he just wants the best for Europe.You are not solving the world problems by letting them in.These countries(the ones the imigrants come from) will continue to "produce" people in bad conditions because their economy/politics keeps draging the country down(corruption, lack of better administration, etc).The actual right thing to do is go and fix those countries problems, which is something thats not easily done.If you just keep acepting people in, these refugees wont stop comming, because who wouldnt turn down a chance to have a better life?That in consequence will bring problems to Europes own countries problems, such as finding jobs for those people, making them learn the language, spending money keeping them healthy, and long term problems too, such as providing a good retirement pay for them and many more.

I mean, 80% of Chinas population is poor and Im pretty sure a good percentage of that numbers lives in bad condition.Do you really think Europe can simply say,"hey come on over!" and solve all the worlds problems?

No, but saying "No, you cant come in. Now go back and die in your own country" is not an option either. Its easy for us that live in stable countries to say "Sort out your own shit" or "Someone sort the shit out in that country". Meanwhile thousands of people are dying. They dont have years to sit around and wait for their country to be "fixed". They dont have a say in how their country is run most of the time. Maybe do some thinking before posting yourself...

Hate me all you want, but thats actually the response they should give.You cant fix the worlds problem by yourself.If they wree to do what you just suggested, they should take in 40% of the world, if not more, inside their borders.Thats just insane.

And Im pretty sure you wouldnt just let strange people come in if you had the chance.There is an easy way to prove this:Do you invite every homeless guy that you pass through to your house?I mean, giving food wont cut it, since they would still be in the same situation.The "right" thing to do would be to get those people to your house and elt them live there to try to give them a better life.Do you do that?Most likely not.Why?Because its not your fault.The one that should be fixing those guys problems is the government.The same applies to Europe.

There is no ideal answer to this.Every action has a consequence.If you dont fix the problem, but rather stimulate remending the problem, people will get accoustomed to it and things will never change.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

WolfpackN64 said:
Nautilus said:

Its because the country is so deep in sh*t, with corrupted politicians, ignorant people, or are in a so extreme porvety that they simply do not care.Some country, like Congo, is basically a big Mafia center.Many of those countries culture(and please dont bash me for it) has never had the concept, like most first world countries have, that you should work honestly and do your best to get yourself out of the situation.Or it is so deep in corruption, that nothing short of a war will take them out of it.There are some that had bad luck, im pretty sure, but many are liek this now because of its own people and its own legacy.Its a complicated mess.

You know, the big problem is Congo is being exploited by the EU, the US and China for it's vast material resources. China builds some infrastructure, bribes some politicians and BAM, lots of metal. The people of Congo HAVE political conscience, even a rich history of political participation. But when so many powers have so many interests in your country, it's hard to fight the institution which keeps your country from developing.

Well, I agree with you that alot of problems that many third world countries have comes from rich countries abusing from them.But saying that is the only reason is wrong too.Take Nigeria for example and all the piracy problems they have.Or Venezuela and their intelectually chanllenged politicians they have.I personally believe the main problems those countries have comes from themselves.At least more than the external problems.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
WolfpackN64 said:

You know, the big problem is Congo is being exploited by the EU, the US and China for it's vast material resources. China builds some infrastructure, bribes some politicians and BAM, lots of metal. The people of Congo HAVE political conscience, even a rich history of political participation. But when so many powers have so many interests in your country, it's hard to fight the institution which keeps your country from developing.

Well, I agree with you that alot of problems that many third world countries have comes from rich countries abusing from them.But saying that is the only reason is wrong too.Take Nigeria for example and all the piracy problems they have.Or Venezuela and their intelectually chanllenged politicians they have.I personally believe the main problems those countries have comes from themselves.At least more than the external problems.

But people are actively trying to solve these problems. But as long as other major powers will do anything to let their will prevail to get economic benifits, then these countries will continue to have problems, from Africa to Venezuela.



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Nautilus said:
KLXVER said:

No, but saying "No, you cant come in. Now go back and die in your own country" is not an option either. Its easy for us that live in stable countries to say "Sort out your own shit" or "Someone sort the shit out in that country". Meanwhile thousands of people are dying. They dont have years to sit around and wait for their country to be "fixed". They dont have a say in how their country is run most of the time. Maybe do some thinking before posting yourself...

Hate me all you want, but thats actually the response they should give.You cant fix the worlds problem by yourself.If they wree to do what you just suggested, they should take in 40% of the world, if not more, inside their borders.Thats just insane.

And Im pretty sure you wouldnt just let strange people come in if you had the chance.There is an easy way to prove this:Do you invite every homeless guy that you pass through to your house?I mean, giving food wont cut it, since they would still be in the same situation.The "right" thing to do would be to get those people to your house and elt them live there to try to give them a better life.Do you do that?Most likely not.Why?Because its not your fault.The one that should be fixing those guys problems is the government.The same applies to Europe.

There is no ideal answer to this.Every action has a consequence.If you dont fix the problem, but rather stimulate remending the problem, people will get accoustomed to it and things will never change.

Well first of I dont hate you.

Well would you tell a woman that were physically abused by their husband and ran to your house for help to just "Deal with it". No, you wouldnt. That doesnt mean you should take actions into your own hands and help them, but you would probably call the police.



barneystinson69 said:
KLXVER said:

The history wont go away...

My point is why I care, not that it'll go away. How exactly is this fair to Europeans to allow in so many economic migrants. How about the USA do something for once, or how about the middle east. These people are drowning in the 1000s, then blaming Europe for letting it happen! These people need to solve the problems in their own countries, while Europe does the same for themselves.

It isn't the job of the United States to babysit thew world. 



WolfpackN64 said:
Nautilus said:

Well, I agree with you that alot of problems that many third world countries have comes from rich countries abusing from them.But saying that is the only reason is wrong too.Take Nigeria for example and all the piracy problems they have.Or Venezuela and their intelectually chanllenged politicians they have.I personally believe the main problems those countries have comes from themselves.At least more than the external problems.

But people are actively trying to solve these problems. But as long as other major powers will do anything to let their will prevail to get economic benifits, then these countries will continue to have problems, from Africa to Venezuela.

Im not saying that the people from those countires are doing nothing.Just that sometimes, there are some countries that are so deep in corruption, or that some countires have a more tolerance for said corruption, that these peoples effort arent good enough.Not always everything is a conspiracy theory.Have you seen what Maduro(Venezuala president) say once in a while?Its like a madman!And if you try to do anything against it, you might get arrested or worse, killed.And, thats my honest opinion, they wont get rid of him, or the corrupt politicians that surround him, through the law.There may have some companie from another country there that takes advantage of that situation, but thats the own countries "fault" for getting that low.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:

Im not saying that the people from those countires are doing nothing.Just that sometimes, there are some countries that are so deep in corruption, or that some countires have a more tolerance for said corruption, that these peoples effort arent good enough.Not always everything is a conspiracy theory.Have you seen what Maduro(Venezuala president) say once in a while?Its like a madman!And if you try to do anything against it, you might get arrested or worse, killed.And, thats my honest opinion, they wont get rid of him, or the corrupt politicians that surround him, through the law.There may have some companie from another country there that takes advantage of that situation, but thats the own countries "fault" for getting that low.

The problem is Maduro is trying to halt a right wing takeover of his country. A lot of fishy things have been going on with the Venezuelan captains of industry, who have a lot of support from the right coallition.



barneystinson69 said:
hershel_layton said:

What amazing logic

 

 

Sure, China is rich, but look at the setbacks. Do you think people there live in mansions and use money as toilet paper? No. Most people are stuck working in factories and get horrible wages.

 

As for africa, it's always had a horrible history(unlike China and india). Don't forget that China is considered one of the greatest dynasties in the history of human kind. 

 

Africa is an entire continent. Much bigger than India or europe. To say, "work hard" and expect any sort of difference is farcical. Africa has a horrible history. Not only that, but you can't do much with a place that's basically an oven. At least other areas are resource rich(or have any resources at all). 

 

Africa is something that won't be solved until the next century(of we started working on it today and kept working). The damage is simply too much

Then I guess the people need to deal with it, as Europe can't immigrate 1 billion of them. There are issue's they need to solve, but if they work to it it can be done in less than 2 generations. And China and India has just as many people as Africa, so I don't see whats different

I already offered an explanation as to why Africa is different. One, it's gigantic. It's not easy to take such large land and put it into happy land.

 

Secondly, China and India have more resources than africa. Africa is basically a wasteland infected with disease, extreme religion, and much more. Also, at least with China and India we have one place we need to fix. You can make a 1000 page document for everything wrong with africa. Hard enough fixing places such as somalia. Imagine fixing a plethora of countries that are in worse condition than Myspace



 

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