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Forums - Movies & TV - Civil War criticism really doesn't hold up.

Really? No major plot holes? I don't think I've ever seen a Marvel movie that didn't have major plot holes. But okay, lets talk about some.

1. "We need to be reigned in." Really Tony? We? We need to be reigned in? Coming from the guy who mad hyper advanced weaponry that when the government said "hey, that's too dangerous for one man to control" said, "Fuck you guys! I'm Ironman!". The guy who made a super robot that tried to kill everyone and then decided that the only way to fix it was to try and do the same thing over again?]

Tony Stark, the guy who has been the bull in a China shop for the entire series is jumping right on board with government oversight because after his years of making weapons and killing people with his bare (metal covered) hands, one angry lady made him feel bad about someone who got killed?

2. Did nobody remember that the last time the Avengers were under a government organization, they ended up being Hydra? Did nobody think to bring that up? Seems like a pretty good point if your trying to argue against new government oversight.

3. Why does Black Panther have powers? They literally don't mention them at all. He can fist fight Captain America and the Winter Soldier and can run down a motorcycle...why? How? P90X?

4. This is a smaller issue, but Why did Scarlet Witch just throw things at people during the airport fight? For instance, she throws cars at Ironman...Just grab him. She literally could have ended that fight in like a minute by just holding them all while Cap and Bucky run to the jet. Hell, they all could have made it to the jet.



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I have a few. They don't unravel the movie, though. You can explain them one at a time.

First: how come when Winter Soldier was losing his shit, Tony was able to hold his own with just an Iron Man glove. At the end, Winter Soldier was able to overpower Iron Man (who was in full armor) with his normal arm!



d21lewis said:
I have a few. They don't unravel the movie, though. You can explain them one at a time.

First: how come when Winter Soldier was losing his shit, Tony was able to hold his own with just an Iron Man glove. At the end, Winter Soldier was able to overpower Iron Man (who was in full armor) with his normal arm!

Well, you see, Tony Stark is actually blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....

 

get it?

 

I should also point out that I enjoyed the movie. It's just that you really need to turn your brain off for...most super hero movies.



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I'll accept your explanation, Normanchacho. But hot about THIS:

In Avengers, the government was okay with launching a nuclear missile into the heart of NEW YORK CITY. Luckily, Iron Man was able to fly out through a wormhole and blow up some shit.

Nobody considers that the Avengers saved like a million lives? Why blame that on them and not, oh I don't know, Loki!



It just doesn't make sense. Because of the Avengers a lot of people dies in other MCU movies but suddenly people starts to care when they are like 8 movies into the MCU?

That's just to mention one from the many flaws this movie has.



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Normchacho said:
Really? No major plot holes? I don't think I've ever seen a Marvel movie that didn't have major plot holes. But okay, lets talk about some.

1. "We need to be reigned in." Really Tony? We? We need to be reigned in? Coming from the guy who mad hyper advanced weaponry that when the government said "hey, that's too dangerous for one man to control" said, "Fuck you guys! I'm Ironman!". The guy who made a super robot that tried to kill everyone and then decided that the only way to fix it was to try and do the same thing over again?]

Tony Stark, the guy who has been the bull in a China shop for the entire series is jumping right on board with government oversight because after his years of making weapons and killing people with his bare (metal covered) hands, one angry lady made him feel bad about someone who got killed?

2. Did nobody remember that the last time the Avengers were under a government organization, they ended up being Hydra? Did nobody think to bring that up? Seems like a pretty good point if your trying to argue against new government oversight.

3. Why does Black Panther have powers? They literally don't mention them at all. He can fist fight Captain America and the Winter Soldier and can run down a motorcycle...why? How? P90X?

4. This is a smaller issue, but Why did Scarlet Witch just throw things at people during the airport fight? For instance, she throws cars at Ironman...Just grab him. She literally could have ended that fight in like a minute by just holding them all while Cap and Bucky run to the jet. Hell, they all could have made it to the jet.

1.  That's not a plot hole.  Just a different opinion.  But it wasn't just one woman.  It was clear that he was symbolic for all the people who died there.  That was also coupled with the pressure from the government and Tony's desire to get ahead of things.  You could disagree with it, but people change their minds. 

2.  They do bring that up.  The first time they speak about it actually.  Rhodes discusses how the UN is different from organizations like Shield, and then Captain America mentions that UN is also run by people who may have agendas.  

3.  Again not a plothole.  We know at least some of his powers come from the suit.  As for the rest, they don't devote time for it in this movie.  Just like they don't mention how Spider-man got his powers.  It's just something that's not essential to the plot, and devoting time to it would be clunky at best and derailing to the movie at worst.

4.  When she tries to immobilize Vision, it takes about all her concentration to paralyze him.  So, it seems people can resist her.  And we haven't seen her show the level of control to freeze several moving targets that are spread out over a distance.  



d21lewis said:
I have a few. They don't unravel the movie, though. You can explain them one at a time.

First: how come when Winter Soldier was losing his shit, Tony was able to hold his own with just an Iron Man glove. At the end, Winter Soldier was able to overpower Iron Man (who was in full armor) with his normal arm!

But he didn't.  He was able to defend himself for about 10 seconds, then his allies jumped in to help him.  It's pretty clear had it been a one on one prolonged fight, Iron man would have been dead.



d21lewis said:
I'll accept your explanation, Normanchacho. But hot about THIS:

In Avengers, the government was okay with launching a nuclear missile into the heart of NEW YORK CITY. Luckily, Iron Man was able to fly out through a wormhole and blow up some shit.

Nobody considers that the Avengers saved like a million lives? Why blame that on them and not, oh I don't know, Loki!

The people who wanted to nuke New York City were the overseers of SHIELD.  Not technically government in the way you're thinking.

As for Loki, why was Loki on Earth?  Because Thor showed up.  One of the Avengers brought him after them.  Then Sokovia was pretty much all Avengers fault.

People look for people to blame.  Not always the right people, but that's the way it works in the real world.

Uabit said:
It just doesn't make sense. Because of the Avengers a lot of people dies in other MCU movies but suddenly people starts to care when they are like 8 movies into the MCU? 

That's just to mention one from the many flaws this movie has.

What?  They talk about it... like a lot.  In Avengers, they mention how Thor and Loki's fight led to them developing tesseract weaponry in case something like that happens again.  In the end, when they're showing news clips about the incident, several people talk about the Avengers as a threat.  At the end when Fury is talking to the TV head dudes that run SHIELD he specifically says "they're dangerous".  A huge plot point in Iron Man 2 is about Iron Man's armor getting into the wrong hands and the potential danger.  

It's brought up in a lot of the movies.  Since the movies are focussed on the action at hand, it's in the background.  It just comes to the forefront in this one.



I don't think the movie has plot holes. It does have plot contrivances though.



My old "go to":

In Ant Man, Scott Lang pretty much escaped from jail. Then broke into a Avengers headquarters. Then blew up a building.

Isn't he pretty much a supervillain at this point? What made him trustworthy? (Let it be known that i hated Ant Man because I couldn't get over his "shrink but still be heavy but still ride ants" ability. This may have been explained....)