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Forums - Movies & TV - Civil War criticism really doesn't hold up.

People like different things.  Even magnificent things like bacon and oral sex don't have unanimous appeal.  Some people like having meat hooks stuck in their backs.  There are lots of different opinions out there, and that's fine.  For some people (myself included in many cases), an opinion being an opinion isn't good enough.  They have to feel their opinion is objectively justified.

When you're dealing with a movie that was poorly received (like Batman vs Superman), it's pretty easy to justify yourself.  Just point to the critics, users, and point out the flaws that everyone already pointed out.  When you're dealing with a movie most people liked (The Force Awakens or in this case Civil War), you have to be a bit more creative.

So, people argue that the movie doesn't make sense, and tug at any thread that is the least bit questionable hoping to unravel the movie.  I've seen a lot of people doing this for Civil War.  Upon getting a bootleg copy of the movie from the guy who hangs around outside my pizza place, I've found that pretty much all the complaints can be justified by simply watching the movie, and with perhaps a small amount of thought from a neutral perspective.

There are of course some things not explained perfectly, some coincidences, and some scientific implausabilities.  After all this is an action movie about superheroes, and having them sit around with nothing extraordinary happening while they completely obey the laws of physics wouldn't make a billion dollars.  But I can't find any legitimate major plotholes in the movie.

So if you're claiming the movie is bad cause it doesn't make sense, I don't think you have a leg to stand on.  Of course, you're free to hate the movie, but you'll have a hard time claiming your reason is anything but pure preference.  Of course, I'm not perfect, and I really did want to like the movie.  If you think there's a legitimate plothole, go for it.



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I love civil war but I think the only thing I would complain about is why vision was even on a side at the airport, he was basically just there to watch since his main /only power would just end another character, just watch the scene and watch what vision is doing for most of it, tis a bit odd.

That said, the movie has more than 12 main characters and around 150 mins of screen time, I think each hero and villain got a load done considering they each had less time than your average YouTube video on screen individually. Compare it to the nearly 3 hours of bvs which still weirdly got so little done for the two characters on screen.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

An opinion...of opinions... Let's keep it going, folks



Well, I can think of some "legitimate" plot holes. Like the fact that Vision took down War Machine because he was "distraught" (I don't know how they say it in English, that's the literal translation from the Spanish version), but back when he tried attacking Falcon there was literally no thing that could distract him that moment. It was just some plothole convenience so that Captain America could escape.

And I don't know if it counts as plot hole or as a really, really poor plot device, but there's no reason why Tony Stark should know Spider-Man's true identity. There's none given, unless watching youtube videos is proof enough. Which in itself makes no sense, why bring Spiderman to the fight when he has no real reason to be there? He's just so that Marvel screams to the audience "hey, we got him back!"

Then there's just some flaws or the magic coincidence fairy that was also present on The Force Awakens here, like a camera on the middle of nowhere ready to film Bucky killing Tony's parents (had the car steered a little bit more and no footage would have been found!), Captain America knowing this information...because I don't know, frankly, how did he know about this? And how did the evil guy know that Iron Man would show up with the Winter Soldier to show him this footage?

 

Not hating on the movie, by the way. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would, and these flaws didn't affect my perception on the overall scheme of things. But there they are, regardless of the situation!



The only things I saw vision do were try to block off the airport, fight against Ant Man, and shoot down Rhodey by accident, and of course throwing some punches in some of the less. He doesn't get a lot of screen time there, but I don't see many scenes of him just lying around scratching himself.

There was a pretty decent amount of time for each character, mainly cause the movie didn't really have that many big subplots that chewed up a lot of time. Not to bash Batman vs Superman again, but it didn't have anything like Lois' quest for evidence that Lex is bad or that sort of thing. Seems like whoever was in charge of editing did a pretty good job.



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Wright said:

Well, I can think of some "legitimate" plot holes. Like the fact that Vision took down War Machine because he was "distraught" (I don't know how they say it in English, that's the literal translation from the Spanish version), but back when he tried attacking Falcon there was literally no thing that could distract him that moment. It was just some plothole convenience so that Captain America could escape.

And I don't know if it counts as plot hole or as a really, really poor plot device, but there's no reason why Tony Stark should know Spider-Man's true identity. There's none given, unless watching youtube videos is proof enough. Which in itself makes no sense, why bring Spiderman to the fight when he has no real reason to be there? He's just so that Marvel screams to the audience "hey, we got him back!"

Then there's just some flaws or the magic coincidence fairy that was also present on The Force Awakens here, like a camera on the middle of nowhere ready to film Bucky killing Tony's parents (had the car steered a little bit more and no footage would have been found!), Captain America knowing this information...because I don't know, frankly, how did he know about this? And how did the evil guy know that Iron Man would show up with the Winter Soldier to show him this footage?

 

Not hating on the movie, by the way. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would, and these flaws didn't affect my perception on the overall scheme of things. But there they are, regardless of the situation!

Vision seemed upset about the fighting in general.  It's also pretty clear he had feelings for Wanda, who had just sent him through like ten floors of concrete.  He's also an android just starting to deal with human emotions.  This is the first time he's fighting someone he'd considered friends.  You could say it's a little contrived, but within the realm of possibility.

Tony obviously had been looking into Spider-man for a while.  It's not like he just whipped up a suit in ten seconds.  It wouldn't be hard to narrow him down to a small area in queens (in early Spider Man books, like ten different villains figured he lived somewhere around his high school), and from there it's not hard to see how Tony could use his resources to find him.  It's a case where they probably *could* have given you five or ten minutes of Tony figures out who Spidey is story, but why?  Not really a plot hole, just something that didn't need to be shown. 

As for why he's there, obviously it's mainly because Marvel wanted him there.  But it's justified by the story.  Spider-man is obviously a person who Tony had been watching for a while and was looking at for a potential mentorship or apprenticeship kind of thing.  This mission made a good first run, because he was pretty confident Cap and his team wouldn't try to kill him.  And keep in mind, he probably would have HAD to talk to Spider-man at some point in the near future, as the accords made him an outlaw if he kept Spideying on his own.

As for how the evil guy knew, that's fairly simple.  He knew about the airport battle (kind of big news), and at that point he called in room service so they'd find the body of the UN psychiatrist.  He knew they'd find the winter soldier disguise, and find out who he was.  He knew Cap and Bucky were already after him, and he knew Iron Man would try to find him too, after revealing he had attacked the UN and framed Bucky.  From there, he just had to wait for them all to show up.  He was in a room that Bucky and Cap couldn't break into, so even if he just waited there and Tony showed up a few hours later, it would have been fine.  It made it much better for him, and the viewers, that they arrived at the same time, but it wasn't necessary for his plan to succeed.



Skratchy said:
An opinion...of opinions... Let's keep it going, folks

I'm bored and wanted to discuss it.  If you don't, nobody's gonna force you.



Wright said:

Well, I can think of some "legitimate" plot holes. Like the fact that Vision took down War Machine because he was "distraught" (I don't know how they say it in English, that's the literal translation from the Spanish version), but back when he tried attacking Falcon there was literally no thing that could distract him that moment. It was just some plothole convenience so that Captain America could escape.

And I don't know if it counts as plot hole or as a really, really poor plot device, but there's no reason why Tony Stark should know Spider-Man's true identity. There's none given, unless watching youtube videos is proof enough. Which in itself makes no sense, why bring Spiderman to the fight when he has no real reason to be there? He's just so that Marvel screams to the audience "hey, we got him back!"

Then there's just some flaws or the magic coincidence fairy that was also present on The Force Awakens here, like a camera on the middle of nowhere ready to film Bucky killing Tony's parents (had the car steered a little bit more and no footage would have been found!), Captain America knowing this information...because I don't know, frankly, how did he know about this? And how did the evil guy know that Iron Man would show up with the Winter Soldier to show him this footage?

 

Not hating on the movie, by the way. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would, and these flaws didn't affect my perception on the overall scheme of things. But there they are, regardless of the situation!

There was two things which could explain vision messing up the shot and getting war machine instead of Falcon, keep in mind the scene previous where he was talking about the mind gem which powers him, unsure if he controls it or the other way around,  also he had scarlet witch in his arms while he was aiming up at Falcon and she is very capable of manipulating someone to miss a shot.

 

Just saying though it's more likely to have been the mind gem since he spoke about it before the scene and he looked at it worried when he said that he wasn't aware he could be distracted. 



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

What part of the movie doesn't make sense? For me everything was well structured. It's an easy movie to follow. The only nitpick I have is the part were Zemo gets to interview Bucky at the UN building, without using any sort of costume or mask, yet no one notices he is not the UN psychiatrist. That was too convenient. Still, doesn't affect the overall experience for me. It's a very good movie.



Jpcc86 said:
What part of the movie doesn't make sense? For me everything was well structured. It's an easy movie to follow. The only nitpick I have is the part were Zemo gets to interview Bucky at the UN building, without using any sort of costume or mask, yet no one notices he is not the UN psychiatrist. That was too convenient. Still, doesn't affect the overall experience for me. It's a very good movie.

People have been complaining about a bunch of random things.  But that complaint is actually somewhat legit.  You'd think they'd have stricter protocols for talking to a dangerous criminal, and probably an armed guard at hand.