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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why are we still using discs instead of cartridges?

 

What should we use based on expenses?

Cartridges 201 52.48%
 
Discs 182 47.52%
 
Total:383
RolStoppable said:

The fact that most of their Wii U games would still fit on a DVD, so only few games for NX would require something bigger than 16GB cards. Plus Nintendo's entire history is one of keeping file sizes small.

Most Xbox 360 games would fit on a DVD but did that stop Microsoft from moving to Blu-ray discs ? 

Nintendo keeping file sizes small is relative in this case when EVERY generation they too needed bigger storage sizes to make their games so what exactly is stoping them from exploring more games in the tens of gigabytes for the NX ?



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I'm sure discs are cheaper to mass produce...



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Intrinsic said:
CaptainExplosion said:

How are SD cards more expensive?

What? you think that because SD cards have a smaller footprint they are cheaper? 

On amazon you can get a pack of 50 50GB bluray discs for a little under $80. That comes up to $1.6 per disc. And this is at retail. For publishers they probably spend no more than 10c on an actual disc. By the time you throw in packaging that goes up to around $3 per game. A 64GB Class 10 SD card Cost around $20. They come in sizes of 8,16,32,64....etc. Now the cost of just the card is probably no less than $5 when u take out the retailer markup. And  they can't use less than a class 10, even that is stupid slow peaking at 10MB/s. Unless they use an SDXC card which peaks at around 90MB/s. But that's more expensive. 

What people need to understand, is that if it were cheaper or better using carts of any kind everyone would use them. Only reason Nintendo has to use them is cause you can't fit a disc drive into a handheld console without adding unnecrary bulk. 

I understand the argument that you are trying to present, but you can't honestly think that Nintendo would be paying the prices for SD Memory cards as what you are finding on Amazon! The company would get great wholesale prices and the major difference between using a card storage medium now versus the N64 days is SD cards are a major standard now. There were so many different types of storage formats that nothing remotely to the size speed and price of current SD cards existed. So not even just making it exclusive to the SD card format, even if the decided to go with some kind of flash Rom it's far more advanced and cheaper than that of the N64.



RolStoppable said:
fatslob-:O said:

Most Xbox 360 games would fit on a DVD but did that stop Microsoft from moving to Blu-ray discs ? 

Nintendo keeping file sizes small is relative in this case when EVERY generation they too needed bigger storage sizes to make their games so what exactly is stoping them from exploring more games in the tens of gigabytes for the NX ?

Are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? The occasional game that doesn't fit on a 16GB card would go on a 32GB or even 64GB card. In order to have a point, you would have to believe that the majority of Nintendo's next generation games will exceed a file size of 16GB. But like I said, Nintendo's history points to the opposite.

I noticed some people are pretty much arguing against possibilities when we know next to nothing about the NX... I also see that many like to conclude for Nintendo to be successful everything is about catching lightening in a bottle. Which is such a disservice to a company that's not only been around for a long time but very profitable as well, even before the Wii and DS came along. Nintendo hasn't had close to equal 3rd party support since maybe the GC days and 3rd party companies weren't what made both the DS and Wii successful, it was all Nintendo coming up with something clever...



Ck1x said:
Intrinsic said:

What? you think that because SD cards have a smaller footprint they are cheaper? 

On amazon you can get a pack of 50 50GB bluray discs for a little under $80. That comes up to $1.6 per disc. And this is at retail. For publishers they probably spend no more than 10c on an actual disc. By the time you throw in packaging that goes up to around $3 per game. A 64GB Class 10 SD card Cost around $20. They come in sizes of 8,16,32,64....etc. Now the cost of just the card is probably no less than $5 when u take out the retailer markup. And  they can't use less than a class 10, even that is stupid slow peaking at 10MB/s. Unless they use an SDXC card which peaks at around 90MB/s. But that's more expensive. 

What people need to understand, is that if it were cheaper or better using carts of any kind everyone would use them. Only reason Nintendo has to use them is cause you can't fit a disc drive into a handheld console without adding unnecrary bulk. 

I understand the argument that you are trying to present, but you can't honestly think that Nintendo would be paying the prices for SD Memory cards as what you are finding on Amazon! The company would get great wholesale prices and the major difference between using a card storage medium now versus the N64 days is SD cards are a major standard now. There were so many different types of storage formats that nothing remotely to the size speed and price of current SD cards existed. So not even just making it exclusive to the SD card format, even if the decided to go with some kind of flash Rom it's far more advanced and cheaper than that of the N64.

No one is saying Nintendo will pay retail, what is being argued is that one medium is naturally more expensive to produce than the other and not by a little bit but by a lot. The question is, why would Nintendo eat up into their own profits of they have a cheaper option. 



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Ck1x said:

I understand the argument that you are trying to present, but you can't honestly think that Nintendo would be paying the prices for SD Memory cards as what you are finding on Amazon! The company would get great wholesale prices and the major difference between using a card storage medium now versus the N64 days is SD cards are a major standard now. There were so many different types of storage formats that nothing remotely to the size speed and price of current SD cards existed. So not even just making it exclusive to the SD card format, even if the decided to go with some kind of flash Rom it's far more advanced and cheaper than that of the N64.

I don't know where you got that i was saying nintendo will pay amazon prices for their storage medium. I clearly pointed out what the cost will be after you take out retailer markups. If on amazon it cost $20, then nintendo cant get that at anything less than $5, or even if you want you can say $2. Thats writing of 90% of the cost as a retailer markup. 

Thst still lesves you with one medium costing around 10c-25c and another costing $2-$5. Doesn't sound like much, until you start counting in the millions. 

And about the cards or type of cards used, first understnd that atorage media isnt onky determined by their capacity. The speed of such media is also very important. Their availability too. And its ludicrous to even be talking about N64 carts...... what was the size of the biggest N64 game? 50MB? 100MB?..... hell, lets even say 400MB and i know they  werent that big. A modern HD game with texture rez that will look halfway decent at 1080p wont come in anythjng less than 15GB today, unless nintendo wants to make games that look like 360 games. This all brings me to the soeed of the carts...

A class 10 SD card has a transfer speed of 10MB/s - 30MB/s. Thats how quickly you can move data from the cart to system ram or an internal HDD. SD cards tech are the most popular and common card tech out there today. Which means they sre the cheapest. If you want, you can use SDXC tech instead, ramp up transfer speeds to over 90MB/s, but those are more expensive.... and if nintendo goes with a proprietary card tech, then that will be most expensive, since they will be the only ones using it. 

No matter how its spun, carts cost more than discs.... amd there simoly are no benefits to them besides durability. 



Ck1x said:

I noticed some people are pretty much arguing against possibilities when we know next to nothing about the NX... I also see that many like to conclude for Nintendo to be successful everything is about catching lightening in a bottle. Which is such a disservice to a company that's not only been around for a long time but very profitable as well, even before the Wii and DS came along. Nintendo hasn't had close to equal 3rd party support since maybe the GC days and 3rd party companies weren't what made both the DS and Wii successful, it was all Nintendo coming up with something clever...

Lets make something clear.....

Good first party games alone is not enough to make a successful platform. Nintendo should kjow that very well from the N64, GC and the WiiU. Cause nintendo does have some of the best first party games out there. 

So nintendo has two options.

Get third party support that is at least on par with Sony and MS which also means having hardware that is at least as powerful as theirs with similar features or,

Catch lightning in a bottle (again) as they did with the wii and come up with something that is so different and unique to them that everyone wants a piece of it and can only be had on their platform. They tried that with the WiiU with its controller but failed. 

Its really not complicated, if you arent directly pound for pound competing with the HD twins, then you have to be different enough to succeed withoit most of the things that makes them successful.



I'm all for Nintendo using cards for NX. It will make the home console a lot smaller (they could make the console as small as the original Wii), less prone to breaking and reduce loading times. Also, if they want us to play the games on both home console and handheld there is no way they are using discs. A card could be popped into both systems.



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“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Intrinsic said:
Ck1x said:

I noticed some people are pretty much arguing against possibilities when we know next to nothing about the NX... I also see that many like to conclude for Nintendo to be successful everything is about catching lightening in a bottle. Which is such a disservice to a company that's not only been around for a long time but very profitable as well, even before the Wii and DS came along. Nintendo hasn't had close to equal 3rd party support since maybe the GC days and 3rd party companies weren't what made both the DS and Wii successful, it was all Nintendo coming up with something clever...

Lets make something clear.....

Good first party games alone is not enough to make a successful platform. Nintendo should kjow that very well from the N64, GC and the WiiU. Cause nintendo does have some of the best first party games out there. 

So nintendo has two options.

Get third party support that is at least on par with Sony and MS which also means having hardware that is at least as powerful as theirs with similar features or,

Catch lightning in a bottle (again) as they did with the wii and come up with something that is so different and unique to them that everyone wants a piece of it and can only be had on their platform. They tried that with the WiiU with its controller but failed. 

Its really not complicated, if you arent directly pound for pound competing with the HD twins, then you have to be different enough to succeed withoit most of the things that makes them successful.

So Nintendo needs to either copy the others or "catch lightning in a bottle"? I think that term is used way too loosely.

The funnly thing about people saying going with cartridges would kill 3rd party support is that 3DS & Vita have significantly stronger 3rd party support than Wii U.



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