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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS4Neo vs Xbox2 vs NX

Akeos said:
setsunatenshi said:

2.4? don't you mean 4.2?

No,  ps4 + 30% and VR ready.... Something like 3DS and new 3DS... 

that's the first time anyone mentioned those numbers. it's going to be polaris based, so it should have something between 36 / 40 CUs (around double the CUs on the current system) plus a frequency increase from 1.6 GHz to 2.something GHz if they indeed remain on the Jaguar. Some time ago there were rumors Sony was undecided on the processor, it would depend on the price they could target... 400$ upgraded Jaguar, 500$ something else.

My suspicion is if the reported 5.x TFLOPS on the new Xbox will be true then they might go for the 500$ upgrade and throw in a ZEN CPU which would be beast.

so no... in any case the 2.4 TFLOPS is a poor estimate



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The problem is that the NX is in potentially the wrong position again this gen, so unless they have something unique, they are going to look out of place.

If Sony can get their 4k machine out this year and it's just an upgraded machine which runs all previous games and all future games run on the PS4, I think MS are in a bit of trouble here, because people will just see it as a continuation and will continue to buy either the PS4 or 4K. If MS come out with a XB2 you would think that would be a benefit, but with their lack of console support again, why would someone want to buy an XB2 knowing full well that support will be quite poor and the games will be perfectly fine on PS4/4K.



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Intrinsic said:
Fei-Hung said:

By now, everyone knows or has heard why Sony or MS can't go slim unless they remove the disc drive. Sony won't remove the drive nor will MS or Sony take up the costs for an expensive 16nm chip since AMD won't. 

 

Sony was clearly planning ahead of MS to release a slim hence they are ready to release their upgrade this year whilst MS like most of this gen has been behind and playing catch up. However, this has allowed them to react to Sonys leaked specs and release a more powerful upgrade at a later date. 

Do you think sony doesnt know the benefits of being the most powerful box on the market? You think they have been living in a bubble this past 2.5yrs? 

Yes, we all know why a "slim" can't theoretically happen. But with the rumored new hardware i think its just unwise to think or assume anything is written in stone now barring any offical announcements. 

Just like with the PS4/XB1, the Neo/Scorpio will be very veey similar being that they sre buying from the exactbsame vendor. I simply do not see how sony will choose to use the same chip that MS is using but clock it lower knowing fully well that will give MS the advanatge they have enjoyed for the past 2+ yrs. Espwcially when thwy are under no pressure from anyone to do so.

We know they are both using Polaris, we know they are both going with somwthing 36CU variant of the GPU chip. if the clock of the chip is all that deteemines if you hsve 4tf/6tf.... why would sony put themselves in a posyion like that? It jist makes no sense to me. 

Sony has bot officially said anything about the neo. Not a single peep. 

Officially speaking no one has said anything. Officially speaking we do not know if they will both have the same chip, just that one will have a higher clock speed. If rumours are to be believed, with a whole year difference between the Neo and Scorpio, the Scorpio will have a newer chip so it won't be about up clocking. It is therefore more likely that the Scorpio might actually have that extra 1-2TFs.

 

I don't want that to happen. I don't want a generation where every platform is constantly different moving forward. It sounds expensive and tit for tat. I like the organised way it is done now where you get two similar powered consoles released around the same time so as a consumer I can pick the one I like best. However, it is what it is if rumours are true. 



setsunatenshi said:
Akeos said:

No,  ps4 + 30% and VR ready.... Something like 3DS and new 3DS... 

that's the first time anyone mentioned those numbers. it's going to be polaris based, so it should have something between 36 / 40 CUs (around double the CUs on the current system) plus a frequency increase from 1.6 GHz to 2.something GHz if they indeed remain on the Jaguar. Some time ago there were rumors Sony was undecided on the processor, it would depend on the price they could target... 400$ upgraded Jaguar, 500$ something else.

My suspicion is if the reported 5.x TFLOPS on the new Xbox will be true then they might go for the 500$ upgrade and throw in a ZEN CPU which would be beast.

so no... in any case the 2.4 TFLOPS is a poor estimate

 

 

Polaris have new cores,  intégred it and say to studios " don't use its news fonctions, use it like ps4 graphique cores "...  Because yours games must run on ps4 ! I can't imagine that... 

For me,  Sony could overclocking ps4 (30%) for better framerate and resolution,  probably VR ready... And juste have to wait Microsoft show his cards and react with a PS5... 

Microsoft have dollars,  can do prices wars

Sony don't need remplace ps4,  juste adapted it to VR

Put polaris without zen cores will be an error, notably if xboxone Scorpio existing...

Ps4 néo is a new ps4..  Not ps4.5... 



If the details we have so far hold up then that Xbox 2/scorpio/whatever will launch later and be more expensive, resulting in the worse selling Xbox console of all time. Doomed from the start. As I have said before, MS can only launch earlier AND cheaper, anything else is suicide. Dunno if those minis and streaming things can redeem the brand, we'll see



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Fei-Hung said:

Officially speaking no one has said anything. Officially speaking we do not know if they will both have the same chip, just that one will have a higher clock speed. If rumours are to be believed, with a whole year difference between the Neo and Scorpio, the Scorpio will have a newer chip so it won't be about up clocking. It is therefore more likely that the Scorpio might actually have that extra 1-2TFs.

 

I don't want that to happen. I don't want a generation where every platform is constantly different moving forward. It sounds expensive and tit for tat. I like the organised way it is done now where you get two similar powered consoles released around the same time so as a consumer I can pick the one I like best. However, it is what it is if rumours are true. 

Yes we seem to be in agreement. My problem is how eveeyone seems to be riding on these rumours. Thr onoy thing that is pretty mivh confirmed right now is that both Sony and MS are going to release new iterative consoles. And that both of them are using a 16/14nm process which is the onoy way such a thing is possoble to begin with.

Specs, release dates and evrything in between are just rumors. But yet we have people here talking like even those are written in stone.

This is what i find most puzzling. Sony has a massive advantage currenlty in this generation. They knowthat the price, the performance edge and their focus is what has got them the win so far. Of the big 3 they are the  one that is under the least amount of pressure to do anything, I mean they have so much of a hold on the console space this gen that if they remained quiet and MS announced they were releasing the XB1.5 next month, all they have to do is say the PS4k is coming 2 months later and it will stall whatever sales rhe XB1.5 could have. 

But for some reason, there are some talking here like these arent rumours and there is some sort of commitment that sony and MS has already made that they are locked to and cant do anything about. Especially when no one has even officially announced anything yet.

For me, and i said this before, i don't even see the PS4k coming this year. They alrewdy have PSVr to oush this year, something as big as a semi new console will at yhe veey least need its own year. 

I look at all these rumors rhe same way i looked at those of orbis/durango. They were all kinda in teh same ball park all kinda true and also kinda wrong. There is just not a chance in hell sony would let MS make an upgrade that is almost twice as powerful as their own upgrade when they are all using the same vendor and especially if all it takes is waiting a year. Is there any reason anyone thinks sony won't or can't wait a year? What exactly does sony have to gain by coming a year early? 

I mean come on, the PS4 is probably the onky console in history that took its price back up from $300 to $350 after a holiday season and YOY sales still went up by 10%. Am i missing something here?



Intrinsic said:
Fei-Hung said:

Officially speaking no one has said anything. Officially speaking we do not know if they will both have the same chip, just that one will have a higher clock speed. If rumours are to be believed, with a whole year difference between the Neo and Scorpio, the Scorpio will have a newer chip so it won't be about up clocking. It is therefore more likely that the Scorpio might actually have that extra 1-2TFs.

 

I don't want that to happen. I don't want a generation where every platform is constantly different moving forward. It sounds expensive and tit for tat. I like the organised way it is done now where you get two similar powered consoles released around the same time so as a consumer I can pick the one I like best. However, it is what it is if rumours are true. 

Yes we seem to be in agreement. My problem is how eveeyone seems to be riding on these rumours. Thr onoy thing that is pretty mivh confirmed right now is that both Sony and MS are going to release new iterative consoles. And that both of them are using a 16/14nm process which is the onoy way such a thing is possoble to begin with.

Specs, release dates and evrything in between are just rumors. But yet we have people here talking like even those are written in stone.

This is what i find most puzzling. Sony has a massive advantage currenlty in this generation. They knowthat the price, the performance edge and their focus is what has got them the win so far. Of the big 3 they are the  one that is under the least amount of pressure to do anything, I mean they have so much of a hold on the console space this gen that if they remained quiet and MS announced they were releasing the XB1.5 next month, all they have to do is say the PS4k is coming 2 months later and it will stall whatever sales rhe XB1.5 could have. 

But for some reason, there are some talking here like these arent rumours and there is some sort of commitment that sony and MS has already made that they are locked to and cant do anything about. Especially when no one has even officially announced anything yet.

For me, and i said this before, i don't even see the PS4k coming this year. They alrewdy have PSVr to oush this year, something as big as a semi new console will at yhe veey least need its own year. 

I look at all these rumors rhe same way i looked at those of orbis/durango. They were all kinda in teh same ball park all kinda true and also kinda wrong. There is just not a chance in hell sony would let MS make an upgrade that is almost twice as powerful as their own upgrade when they are all using the same vendor and especially if all it takes is waiting a year. Is there any reason anyone thinks sony won't or can't wait a year? What exactly does sony have to gain by coming a year early? 

I mean come on, the PS4 is probably the onky console in history that took its price back up from $300 to $350 after a holiday season and YOY sales still went up by 10%. Am i missing something here?

Sony is stuck because they don't want this generation to end. You make a 6 TFLOP PS4 and the gap between the machines will get too large for parity. 

MS has no real vested interest in seeing this generation drag on forever so their philosophy is different, they want more of a full next-gen machine rather than just a stop gap. 



 

vs

 

 

Gonna be a epic show down :)

 



If the PS4 was able to be sold at $399 in 2013 I don't see how a PS4 Neo would be sold for more in 2016, when we know that the GPU in PS4 Neo will be cheaper than the PS4 GPU was back in 2013.

Is the official price for PS4 $349 today? Then I think they should drop the base model to $299 in time for the holidays and launch the PS4 Neo at $399 officially, but in reality offer promotions of $349 most of the time.

A super holiday promotion should offer the PS4 Neo bundled with PS VR for $699.



Akeos said:
setsunatenshi said:

that's the first time anyone mentioned those numbers. it's going to be polaris based, so it should have something between 36 / 40 CUs (around double the CUs on the current system) plus a frequency increase from 1.6 GHz to 2.something GHz if they indeed remain on the Jaguar. Some time ago there were rumors Sony was undecided on the processor, it would depend on the price they could target... 400$ upgraded Jaguar, 500$ something else.

My suspicion is if the reported 5.x TFLOPS on the new Xbox will be true then they might go for the 500$ upgrade and throw in a ZEN CPU which would be beast.

so no... in any case the 2.4 TFLOPS is a poor estimate

 

 

Polaris have new cores,  intégred it and say to studios " don't use its news fonctions, use it like ps4 graphique cores "...  Because yours games must run on ps4 ! I can't imagine that... 

For me,  Sony could overclocking ps4 (30%) for better framerate and resolution,  probably VR ready... And juste have to wait Microsoft show his cards and react with a PS5... 

Microsoft have dollars,  can do prices wars

Sony don't need remplace ps4,  juste adapted it to VR

Put polaris without zen cores will be an error, notably if xboxone Scorpio existing...

Ps4 néo is a new ps4..  Not ps4.5... 

sorry, but i think you're confusing cores with compute units (CUs). currently the APU inside the ps4 has 18 CUs (again, compute units) active, while the Xbox 1 has 12 CUs. The die shrink to 14nm basically allows the APU to have anything between 36/40 CUs, which will probably be the case for both new APUs. Also, it has been pretty much confirmed by now that all games coming out from October on must have a Neo mode available as well as a vanilla mode for the original system.

So unless you have specific sources to contradict all the pretty much confirmed parts of the rumor, you should realize that this 30% number you came up with is just that... something you came up with, having no basis in reality.

It's not part of the discussion what Sony needs or needs not do. It doesn't matter what amount of money MS has or doesn't have. Those are separate discussions.