aLkaLiNE said:
Nuvendil said:
You should check your math on that $7.25. Full time for a fast food joint is ~30 hours. That means 7.25 nets you less than 12k a year. From what I can find, most people that get a raise but aren't shift managers (the rank and file) make around 8.50 which brings us to a whopping 13k a year. That is impossible to live on. Shoot, two people working that job could barely scratch by living together. $15 is insane, but raising it to 9 to 12 depending on the region would be completely sensible, it just needs to be regionally determined.
But yes, fast food companies are fully aware of and not at all opposed to employees coming and going pretty regularly. They aren't looking to provide a career for their rank and file. And frankly, I don't see why anyone would want to PURSUE a career there. But the minimum wage is still way too low for people to even *survive* on in such industries.
CEOs making a lot of money is another topic I've touched on plenty in this thread so I won't repeat myself but suffice it to say *anyone* can flip a burger. 90% of people could not run McDonalds.
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You keep defending the idea that it takes this super rare talent to run a business when there's actually statistics discussing the success rates of companies relative to time. Even after 20 years of business, the failure rate never gets to 90%, and there's always a constant labor pool of general managers/CEOs etc that may be limited but do exist. Beyond that, I'm sure there's even more individuals out there that simply never ended up running a business but would be excellent at it. It seems that you might be exaggerating to prove your point. With that in mind it becomes increasingly hard to justify some of the known pay ratios of high profile companies, which as someone else put it, can eventually be considered wage theft. I see very few reasons where it'd be acceptable to justify incredibly inflated pay relative to your staff, such as presidency of the United States, and they are, officially speaking, paid pennies compared to the leaders of the likes of apple or ConocoPhillips under much, MUCH more demanding positions. In America we are against monopolies. But why are so few in power?
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The larger the company, the more demanding the skill level. I could make sense of, say, a 5 location restaurant chain, I have the know how. I would have to study up on various aspects of the industry, but I could probably make it work. Maybe. But McDonalds? The paperwork and documents the executives work with would be as foreign to me as Chinese. Tens of billions of dollars come into that company every year and then have to be distributed to cover insane maintenance expenses.
But I say what I do about the average joe from personal experience. In my line of work, I have to work with and assist small businesses. It's what I do. As a result, I get to see behind the curtain a bit. I've seen people bringing in millions and millions in revenue and can't get in the black because they just plain suck at management. They ought to be making very comfortable profit - all the numbers are there - but they just...can't. And no, they aren't hording money. They know their business, but they don't know business. Also, keep in mind those with a vision, motivation, and opportunity to start a business already represent a minority of the population that are more patient, responsible, and capable than many. Just getting as far as being what could be considered "a business" (one with emplooyees, not just one guy working from home) takes a lot of time, effort, patience, responsibility. You need to save up the money to support the opperations for a full year if you want to have a good chance cause most businesses will not see meaningful (or even any) profit for months. Many (most, actually) people can't even be responsible with their personal finances. They buy cars and houses they can barely afford (the other half of the "housing market bubble" people forget: banks were being irresponsible but so were people as well), overuse their credit cards, etc etc. To run a business requires a great deal more restraint than most people show with their personal finances. Not that all CEOs are the most responsible people, but those who are competent usually are.
Now, let me qualify that with this: there ARE the exceptions, those CEOs that "set it and forget it" and are more there to make sure things don't go to crap. But this is the exception, not the rule. Again, there are good and bad people on both ends. The bad will always make the headlines though.
Another thing to keep in mind is these wealthy people are also major investors, meaning they do put that money - often most of it - back into companies and the economy which will be used to expand, improve, and grow other businesses. Which can lead to more jobs and better play. The majority of the wealthy are not hording their money in giant swimming pools like Scrooge McDuck.
And then finally, on wage theft. The assertion of that would mean that the pay of the executives actually reduces the pay of employees on the individual wage level by a substantial ammount. Let's, again, look at McDonalds. The disclosed executive compensation - the CEO, CFO, and the other three top paid executives - is a bit under 25 million dollars. McDonalds employs through the company directly and through franchises over 1.7 million people. So let's assume the rest of the upper crust make enough to bring the total to 30mil for the execs. If you were to take all that money and give it back to the employees, you would raise the pay of people by a whopping, astounding, show stopping $17.65...per year. So they are stealing from their individual employees the crippling gift of an annual ok steak dinner. Now if they get really smug and double their collective pay to $60mil, they are depriving them of *two* such dinners.
Now are there companies where "wage theft" really does happen? Some, but few. Most are like McDonalds: well compensated execs but ultimately a pitifully small amount of revenue goes into that compared to the absolutely insane ammount that goes into paying employees. Yeah, executives at McDo's take 25 to 30 mil, but the employee payroll ($9 per hour average, 30 hour work week) takes up 23.87 BILLION. In fact, if you want to find wage theft, stop chasing the big cats and companies of McDonald's size and look for some sleezy smaller companies where the payroll isn't so high. At McDo's the shere size makes "wage theft" practically impossible. Unless you really want those steak dinners.
Let me say for the record though: I am not necessarily for CEOs making tens of millions. But I am perfectly fine with them making much more than me here on the ground level. And I just don't want people looking at their big pay checks and going into classist rage mode and throwing around terminology and proposed policies without thinking, all while demeaning jobs most don't understand. I've seen the stress of being an executive first hand. And I would rather not be in that position.
Edit: I must correct and clarify. First of all, not all employees are in the States so not all make $9 an hour due to cost of living and exchange rates around the world. Second, to clarify, the 23.87 billion do not come directly out of the McDonalds corporation, not all of it. Burden for a lot of that falls on the franchises. I was merely illustrating how much money comes out of the larger McDonald's company in the form of payroll vs the executive compensation.