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Forums - General Discussion - Former McDonald's USA CEO: $35K Robots Cheaper Than Hiring at $15 Per Hour

JRPGfan said:

Do people want to eat at a resturant, where your meal is prepaired by a robot arm? and maybe you dont even have a guy takeing orders, but you talk into a mic like siri?

Is that really the future?
If they go that route just boycut eating there.

McDonalds be greedy :p

Yes, i want to, it's better, more sane



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Can the robots give a good customer service is the real question. If yes, hire robots pls.



Mr Puggsly said:
Azuren said:

Replacing jobs with robots isn't progress, at least not the kind any economy needs. $15 is way too high to pay burger flippers, but $7.25 is too low to pay many other jobs that exploit minimum wage. The problem isn't the minimum wage, or the job itself: It's these giant collections of excrement called "CEOs" that would sooner put millions out of jobs than to take a 1% pay decrease. They continuously try to shift blame elsewhere, but at the end of every argument, they're the ones who decide what happens. Example of when companies do right by their employees, regardless of current minimum wages and laws: Hobby Lobby. 

Hobby Lobby pays part time employees $11 an hour, and it pays full time employees $15. All positions have room for raises, though there's a cap on how much a position can be paid. They offer reasonably priced benefits, and you get every Sunday off to go to church or, like me, not go to church. 

The problem is there are very few companies that recognize their employees as people. 

Throughout the years technology has gotten rid of many job. Its not necessarily a bad thing, this why we dont spend our lives working on farms and instead do other tasks.

I think 7.25 is fine for a fast food job. Any employee worth something will get a raise to stay or move onto another job. This is why a very tiny percentage of this country makes minimum wage.

Companies pay CEOs a lot of money for reasons I dont understand. But hey, its their money. I'm more bothered by tax money being spent on things I dont support or encourages people to do nothing with their life.

I'd like to see many low skill jobs treat their employees better but thats a different discussion.

You should check your math on that $7.25.  Full time for a fast food joint is ~30 hours.  That means 7.25 nets you less than 12k a year.  From what I can find, most people that get a raise but aren't shift managers (the rank and file) make around 8.50 which brings us to a whopping 13k a year.  That is impossible to live on.  Shoot, two people working that job could barely scratch by living together.  $15 is insane, but raising it to 9 to 12 depending on the region would be completely sensible, it just needs to be regionally determined. 

But yes, fast food companies are fully aware of and not at all opposed to employees coming and going pretty regularly.  They aren't looking to provide a career for their rank and file.  And frankly, I don't see why anyone would want to PURSUE a career there.  But the minimum wage is still way too low for people to even *survive* on in such industries. 

CEOs making a lot of money is another topic I've touched on plenty in this thread so I won't repeat myself but suffice it to say *anyone* can flip a burger.  90% of people could not run McDonalds.



People are dumb. Robot servants will COST MORE AND put people out of work. Duh. Don't bitch about immigrants stealing all our jobs, when CEOs would rather subcontract jobs to third world countries, and have robots work for them, than pay their employees more money. It's sick and gross, and no wonder America is in the shitter.



Mr Puggsly said:
Azuren said:

Replacing jobs with robots isn't progress, at least not the kind any economy needs. $15 is way too high to pay burger flippers, but $7.25 is too low to pay many other jobs that exploit minimum wage. The problem isn't the minimum wage, or the job itself: It's these giant collections of excrement called "CEOs" that would sooner put millions out of jobs than to take a 1% pay decrease. They continuously try to shift blame elsewhere, but at the end of every argument, they're the ones who decide what happens. Example of when companies do right by their employees, regardless of current minimum wages and laws: Hobby Lobby. 

Hobby Lobby pays part time employees $11 an hour, and it pays full time employees $15. All positions have room for raises, though there's a cap on how much a position can be paid. They offer reasonably priced benefits, and you get every Sunday off to go to church or, like me, not go to church. 

The problem is there are very few companies that recognize their employees as people. 

Throughout the years technology has gotten rid of many job. Its not necessarily a bad thing, this why we dont spend our lives working on farms and instead do other tasks.

I think 7.25 is fine for a fast food job. Any employee worth something will get a raise to stay or move onto another job. This is why a very tiny percentage of this country makes minimum wage.

Companies pay CEOs a lot of money for reasons I dont understand. But hey, its their money. I'm more bothered by tax money being spent on things I dont support or encourages people to do nothing with their life.

I'd like to see many low skill jobs treat their employees better but thats a different discussion.

Jobs vanishing are never a good thing. Ever. There's a growing population and a dwindling number of jobs, and no matter what kind of magic math you do, that doesn't add up to "good".

 

You dodged the second point, which was that minimum is okay for food, not okay elsewhere (to which it is being applied). And no, people don't really ever make more in the food industry, and most minimum wage jobs don't go anywhere, either.

 

If you're more worried about lazy people than you are people who are actively making life worse across the board for everyone by charging more and paying less, then you just simply need to get your priorities straight. Tax money has been spent o. more useless endeavors. That said, I don't care for those who leech on society, either; I fully believe that all forms of government assistance need to be heavily monitored, and all (except disability and retirement) require a documented job. 



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Nuvendil said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Throughout the years technology has gotten rid of many job. Its not necessarily a bad thing, this why we dont spend our lives working on farms and instead do other tasks.

I think 7.25 is fine for a fast food job. Any employee worth something will get a raise to stay or move onto another job. This is why a very tiny percentage of this country makes minimum wage.

Companies pay CEOs a lot of money for reasons I dont understand. But hey, its their money. I'm more bothered by tax money being spent on things I dont support or encourages people to do nothing with their life.

I'd like to see many low skill jobs treat their employees better but thats a different discussion.

You should check your math on that $7.25.  Full time for a fast food joint is ~30 hours.  That means 7.25 nets you less than 12k a year.  From what I can find, most people that get a raise but aren't shift managers (the rank and file) make around 8.50 which brings us to a whopping 13k a year.  That is impossible to live on.  Shoot, two people working that job could barely scratch by living together.  $15 is insane, but raising it to 9 to 12 depending on the region would be completely sensible, it just needs to be regionally determined. 

But yes, fast food companies are fully aware of and not at all opposed to employees coming and going pretty regularly.  They aren't looking to provide a career for their rank and file.  And frankly, I don't see why anyone would want to PURSUE a career there.  But the minimum wage is still way too low for people to even *survive* on in such industries. 

CEOs making a lot of money is another topic I've touched on plenty in this thread so I won't repeat myself but suffice it to say *anyone* can flip a burger.  90% of people could not run McDonalds.

You keep defending the idea that it takes this super rare talent to run a business when there's actually statistics discussing the success rates of companies relative to time. Even after 20 years of business, the failure rate never gets to 90%, and there's always a constant labor pool of general managers/CEOs etc that may be limited but do exist. Beyond that, I'm sure there's even more individuals out there that simply never ended up running a business but would be excellent at it. It seems that you might be exaggerating to prove your point. With that in mind it becomes increasingly hard to justify some of the known pay ratios of high profile companies, which as someone else put it, can eventually be considered wage theft. I see very few reasons where it'd be acceptable to justify incredibly inflated pay relative to your staff, such as presidency of the United States, and they are, officially speaking, paid pennies compared to the leaders of the likes of apple or ConocoPhillips under much, MUCH more demanding positions. In America we are against monopolies. But why are so few in power?



aLkaLiNE said:
Nuvendil said:

You should check your math on that $7.25.  Full time for a fast food joint is ~30 hours.  That means 7.25 nets you less than 12k a year.  From what I can find, most people that get a raise but aren't shift managers (the rank and file) make around 8.50 which brings us to a whopping 13k a year.  That is impossible to live on.  Shoot, two people working that job could barely scratch by living together.  $15 is insane, but raising it to 9 to 12 depending on the region would be completely sensible, it just needs to be regionally determined. 

But yes, fast food companies are fully aware of and not at all opposed to employees coming and going pretty regularly.  They aren't looking to provide a career for their rank and file.  And frankly, I don't see why anyone would want to PURSUE a career there.  But the minimum wage is still way too low for people to even *survive* on in such industries. 

CEOs making a lot of money is another topic I've touched on plenty in this thread so I won't repeat myself but suffice it to say *anyone* can flip a burger.  90% of people could not run McDonalds.

You keep defending the idea that it takes this super rare talent to run a business when there's actually statistics discussing the success rates of companies relative to time. Even after 20 years of business, the failure rate never gets to 90%, and there's always a constant labor pool of general managers/CEOs etc that may be limited but do exist. Beyond that, I'm sure there's even more individuals out there that simply never ended up running a business but would be excellent at it. It seems that you might be exaggerating to prove your point. With that in mind it becomes increasingly hard to justify some of the known pay ratios of high profile companies, which as someone else put it, can eventually be considered wage theft. I see very few reasons where it'd be acceptable to justify incredibly inflated pay relative to your staff, such as presidency of the United States, and they are, officially speaking, paid pennies compared to the leaders of the likes of apple or ConocoPhillips under much, MUCH more demanding positions. In America we are against monopolies. But why are so few in power?

The larger the company, the more demanding the skill level.  I could make sense of, say, a 5 location restaurant chain, I have the know how.  I would have to study up on various aspects of the industry, but I could probably make it work.  Maybe.  But McDonalds?  The paperwork and documents the executives work with would be as foreign to me as Chinese.  Tens of billions of dollars come into that company every year and then have to be distributed to cover insane maintenance expenses. 

But I say what I do about the average joe from personal experience.  In my line of work, I have to work with and assist small businesses.  It's what I do.  As a result, I get to see behind the curtain a bit.  I've seen people bringing in millions and millions in revenue and can't get in the black because they just plain suck at management.  They ought to be making very comfortable profit - all the numbers are there - but they just...can't.  And no, they aren't hording money.  They know their business, but they don't know business.  Also, keep in mind those with a vision, motivation, and opportunity to start a business already represent a minority of the population that are more patient, responsible, and capable than many.  Just getting as far as being what could be considered "a business" (one with emplooyees, not just one guy working from home) takes a lot of time, effort, patience, responsibility.  You need to save up the money to support the opperations for a full year if you want to have a good chance cause most businesses will not see meaningful (or even any) profit for months.  Many (most, actually) people can't even be responsible with their personal finances.  They buy cars and houses they can barely afford (the other half of the "housing market bubble" people forget: banks were being irresponsible but so were people as well), overuse their credit cards, etc etc.  To run a business requires a great deal more restraint than most people show with their personal finances.  Not that all CEOs are the most responsible people, but those who are competent usually are.

Now, let me qualify that with this:  there ARE the exceptions, those CEOs that "set it and forget it" and are more there to make sure things don't go to crap.  But this is the exception, not the rule.  Again, there are good and bad people on both ends.  The bad will always make the headlines though.

Another thing to keep in mind is these wealthy people are also major investors, meaning they do put that money - often most of it - back into companies and the economy which will be used to expand, improve, and grow other businesses.  Which can lead to more jobs and better play.  The majority of the wealthy are not hording their money in giant swimming pools like Scrooge McDuck.

And then finally, on wage theft.  The assertion of that would mean that the pay of the executives actually reduces the pay of employees on the individual wage level by a substantial ammount.  Let's, again, look at McDonalds.  The disclosed executive compensation - the CEO, CFO, and the other three top paid executives - is a bit under 25 million dollars.  McDonalds employs through the company directly and through franchises over 1.7 million people.  So let's assume the rest of the upper crust make enough to bring the total to 30mil for the execs.  If you were to take all that money and give it back to the employees, you would raise the pay of people by a whopping, astounding, show stopping $17.65...per year.  So they are stealing from their individual employees the crippling gift of an annual ok steak dinner.  Now if they get really smug and double their collective pay to $60mil, they are depriving them of *two* such dinners.

Now are there companies where "wage theft" really does happen?  Some, but few.  Most are like McDonalds:  well compensated execs but ultimately a pitifully small amount of revenue goes into that compared to the absolutely insane ammount that goes into paying employees.  Yeah, executives at McDo's take 25 to 30 mil, but the employee payroll ($9 per hour average, 30 hour work week) takes up 23.87 BILLION.  In fact, if you want to find wage theft, stop chasing the big cats and companies of McDonald's size and look for some sleezy smaller companies where the payroll isn't so high.  At McDo's the shere size makes "wage theft" practically impossible.  Unless you really want those steak dinners.

Let me say for the record though:  I am not necessarily for CEOs making tens of millions.  But I am perfectly fine with them making much more than me here on the ground level.  And I just don't want people looking at their big pay checks and going into classist rage mode and throwing around terminology and proposed policies without thinking, all while demeaning jobs most don't understand.  I've seen the stress of being an executive first hand.  And I would rather not be in that position.

Edit: I must correct and clarify.  First of all, not all employees are in the States so not all make $9 an hour due to cost of living and exchange rates around the world.  Second, to clarify, the 23.87 billion do not come directly out of the McDonalds corporation, not all of it.  Burden for a lot of that falls on the franchises.  I was merely illustrating how much money comes out of the larger McDonald's company in the form of payroll vs the executive compensation.



Eh if they ever did this, the outrage would be pretty big. Millions would boycott McDonalds and get fast food elsewhere.



WolfpackN64 said:
nanarchy said:

I only know of 3 cooperatives locally, all have gone bust. (one milk producer, a recycler and a clothing manufacturer). Cooperatives are generally too inflexible to survive in uncertain economic times (one of the reasons you don't see more of them), I am sure there are some success stories too but I doubt they outnumber the failures, when you run at lower profit margins a small downturn can mean the entire business goes broke.

Of course they can go broke. But they generally do survive longer. Most hurdles are finding starting capital and trying to fend off sometimes agressive competition.

Again Citations please? cooperatives face huge problems with long term viability due to problems with coping with change, market fluxuations and competition. I am sure there are many successful ones, even many long term successful ones but I doubt they generally survive longer or are more successful. You obviously have some citations or research to back up your statements so I would be interested in reading as it definitely differs from what I have seen.



It's pretty scary to think about when robots can take over most jobs, and at a more efficient and cheaper price. Works both ways though



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