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Forums - General Discussion - Transgender or Adhering to Societies Definition of the Opposite Gender.

I think it has to be more complicated than gender as a social construct. I know plenty of women who are very "male-like" in what they do, how they dress and how they look. But they still identify as being a woman. Mostly they are lesbian. They self identify as a lesbian woman, they do not view themselves as a heterosexual man stuck in an anatomically woman's body.

I've never had a conversation with a trans person about what it all means, though I do kind of know a few. But from what little reading on the subject I have done I do not believe it's as simplistic as feeling like "I fit better with the opposite gender norms of society therefore I must be the opposite gender." I think there's a deeper and more fundamental psychology to it, and probably even as we break those gender norms and accept a much broader range of expression by males and females we'll still have people who deeply feel like they are in the wrong body.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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binary solo said:
I think it has to be more complicated than gender as a social construct. I know plenty of women who are very "male-like" in what they do, how they dress and how they look. But they still identify as being a woman. Mostly they are lesbian. They self identify as a lesbian woman, they do not view themselves as a heterosexual man stuck in an anatomically woman's body.

Sure, but sexuality - or sexual orientation - and gender are different things. Gender is about who you are and sexuality about who you are attracted to. 



No matter what society says about genders and how it should be or act, it is not what Trans-gendered people go through as it goes deeper then that, and is more about themselves other then what society tells them they should be. Gender Dysphoria is what Trans-gendered people have in regards to what the Medical community believe in why they want to change there born sex. Again no matter what Society thinks or puts pressure on in regards to "Gender Roles" as it goes deeper then what a man or woman should be or how they should look and act in society.

What I am getting at here is just imagine you were born a man and felt as though something is inherently wrong with how you look and how you feel, I'm not talking about the clothes you wear or if you want to put on make up, this is in more of a way that your body does not feel like it's yours and that for some reason you should not have something hanging in between your legs and that you should have wider hips and larger breasts and thinner arms. This does not come from Society, this is what is known in the Medical Community as Gender Dysphoria, and it's not about enjoying what is considered girly stuff if you're a boy, this is about how the Sex on the outside does not match the sex on the inside of what the actual human brain feels is wrong. They have Depression, Anxiety, restlessness, as well dissatisfaction and sever distress all caused by Gender Dysphoria.

Not Disagreeing with you on how society puts gender roles out there, that is very true. What I am Saying is that people that are truly Trans-gendered do not go through a transformation like this because "Society" makes them feel wrong for liking something that the opposite sex likes in making gender roles a thing, they are Trans-gendered because they themselves feel as though that the body on the outside does not reflect what it is on the inside. And most of the time no respectable Doctor or Surgeon will not go through with helping a Trans-gendered person with changing the gender unless that person has gone through years of therapy as well as psych evaluations to understand that this is truly what they want.

All that being said I am open to hearing more about this discussion.



Jpcc86 said:
binary solo said:
I think it has to be more complicated than gender as a social construct. I know plenty of women who are very "male-like" in what they do, how they dress and how they look. But they still identify as being a woman. Mostly they are lesbian. They self identify as a lesbian woman, they do not view themselves as a heterosexual man stuck in an anatomically woman's body.

Sure, but sexuality - or sexual orientation - and gender are different things. Gender is about who you are and sexuality about who you are attracted to. 

Correct. They are separate things. But the archetypal "butch lesbian" is kind of proof against the assertion that a trans person is simply someone who identifies with gender sterotypes and there for must think "Oh so that must mean I should be of the opposite sex, not the sex I was born as". The main point is that there's more to trans psychology than not feeling like you fit the gender social stereotypes. For instance there are women and men who cross dress, and who look and behave in ways that are more associated with the opposite gender yet who still see themselves as being the sex they were born as. We have one pretty well known lawyer who likes to wear dresses, but he still identifies as a man. He's just a man who likes to wear dresses.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Interesting commentary, but I believe that what OP is describing is how society defines being masculine vs effeminate. This is less about sexual orientation and more about behavior. We as a society parse these two behaviors across gender when gender is obviously something different. It is biology and more basic than society abstractly. Does a man, become more of a woman by societies standards if they are more less masculine? The answer is yes and these are the archetypes that determine gender roles. The perfect world that OP describes seeks to separate gender from gender roles.  A man doesn't feel the to reassign his gender strickly for the purpose of being more comfortably feminie.  



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Jpcc86 said:
Barkley said:

But aren't they just changing their gender because society tells them they are acting like a man not a woman? Shouldn't they just be comfortable with who they are? A woman who likes things that aren't typically associated with females, that doesn't make them a man.

 

 

Yes, that would be ideal, but society in general has not advanced enough to those levels of tolerance. The fact that it's an issue now is the best thing that ever happened to the LGBT community because culture changes constantly and it's doing it right now. Gender is a social construct base on your sex. Society expects that a man fulfills a masculine role and a woman fulfills a femenine role.  If those roles are changed, then you are weird and weird is not acceptable. As it happens with any minority in general. 

The fact that people discriminate and at times fear what they can't understand/experience/relate to it's part of human nature. I honestly couldn't give two craps if my neighbour was gay, lesbian, transgender, catholic, atheist or Xuan Wu the supreme lord of the dark heaven,  because it doesn't affect me in the least, but I get that people get upset when things get them out of their  comfort zone and are not what they think it's "normal" cause that's how any society works.  But really, if you are gonna hate somebody, hate those assholes who spoil Game of Thrones. 

I love your ability to target the actual criminals in our world.

 

Punks like Game of Thrones spoilers should be kicked off our streets.



 

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