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Forums - Politics Discussion - Solution to islamic extremism

Ka-pi96 said:
Porcupine_I said:
What Islam really needs is a absolute authorithy who sets the rules, like the pope.

So... an Islamic Caliphate? At the head of what might be called an Islamic State? You sure about that?

As long as you have one person to deal with, one person to reason with, instead of a lot of people all interpreting stuff the way they want it to.

 

Besides, in my post i said nothing of the things you claim.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Islam and culture do not go hand in hand, there are 1.6 billion Muslims from across the world, from all nations and backgrounds, it was not made to be a cultural thing, rather it's a way of life. I don't like how in your initial post you labelled extremism as "true Islam". Islam in it's very essence is a peaceful religion, and if the teachings of Muhammed PBUH were followed properly by ALL Muslims then the world would be a much peaceful place for it.

The only way to get rid of extremism would be to have a caliphate with a leader, with one set of rules and principles. This would probably deter so much confusion and animosity, and stop youth from following brainwashed extremist idiots who pervert the messages in the Quraan in order to cause chaos. And no I don't accept a "modernised" Islam as the message is already as perfect as it can be. There's nothing wrong with Islam, it's the people who corrupt the message which need sorting out.



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mh, so we need a Mathin Luther of Islam then, I don't know if it would work, but giving the right motivations (actual interpretation of Koran and stuff) could actually work...



Why would an islam extremist accept a new testament? Unfortunately Islam is a religion to which you really can't do anything, unless the high Ayatolla allows that. I don't see the Ayatolla's care very much for Western problems to rewrite the Quran or make a new testament. So the problem we have with Islam is that we co-relate terrorism and islam. Acts of terror happen all over the world and poverty and depravity are usually the cause not some religion.

Even though I neglect every religion and don't think neither the Islam or Christianity brought anything upon the world but making it a miserable place, crusades, corruption pedophilia, wars, the Israel situation, well you get my point. We don't have a muslim problem, but an integration problem which comes form white Europeans and Americans not fully accepting muslims in their society. This act of discrimination is one of the reasons muslims divert more to crime and even terrorism. So to solve our terrorist problem we either need to take better care of those with a different view on Western society and accepting and involving them in society as good as possible.

Or neglect the idea of religion all together in Western society, the Netherlands counts over 55% of it's citizens being Atheist already. Which means that all our schools, laws, political parties should be separated from religion entirely, which is pretty much not possible. So that leaves us to take better care of our immigrants no matter which generation and try to keep the temptation for joining a terrorist cause low and fight those who offer terrorism towards European youngsters who might fall for it. The Islam is just a tool to convert youth into terrorism fighting the tool is not fighting the root of the problem, which is the tension between white and non whites in Western society and the unequal treatment.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

avais1993 said:
Islam and culture do not go hand in hand, there are 1.6 billion Muslims from across the world, from all nations and backgrounds, it was not made to be a cultural thing, rather it's a way of life. I don't like how in your initial post you labelled extremism as "true Islam". Islam in it's very essence is a peaceful religion, and if the teachings of Muhammed PBUH were followed properly by ALL Muslims then the world would be a much peaceful place for it.

The only way to get rid of extremism would be to have a caliphate with a leader, with one set of rules and principles. This would probably deter so much confusion and animosity, and stop youth from following brainwashed extremist idiots who pervert the messages in the Quraan in order to cause chaos. And no I don't accept a "modernised" Islam as the message is already as perfect as it can be. There's nothing wrong with Islam, it's the people who corrupt the message which need sorting out.

Listen. When I say true islam is peaceful, I'm labelled as a Muslim in disguise who is practicing taqiyyeh. If I say true islam is violent, I'm labelled as a Muslim hater who just wants to bash on muslims.

 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

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Aeolus451 said:
There's several solutions but most of those are impossible to implement in today's world with its token efforts and sensibilities. There's no hope of educating the extremism out as long as the places where extremism thrives, lacks the infrastructure to have a real education system and the ability to protect infrastructure. It would still require a large military presence and a lot of time for it to work. The UN and the middle eastern nations are unwilling to commit that kind of resources for this kind of solution.

The other way is through war (unconventional) and basically wiping out any islamic extremists elements within any nation. Some might say we're already doing this but we're not. It would take a very large military presence in the middle east to track down and eliminate all elements. Because extremists don't wear uniforms or follow any law regarding war, the militaries hunting them would have to fight fire with fire in some sense. Who they can treat as combatants and how they could treat would change. Of course, the UN and most governments are unwilling to go with this option

Islam is becoming more unpopular and there's this sort of anti-islamic mindset that's growing by the day due to the consistent terrorist attacks. Eventually, that would empower a future leader with extreme views on islam or political group/party with extreme views and enable them to gain control of governments. Most likely, this group would go with option 2 but it would be a lot worse for everyone is every sense.

My point is that people and the nations they live in need to commit to a course of action and stick with it for good or bad. If they don't, something far worse will eventually happen because of their inaction.

So what you're saying is that we are going to get a bad outcome no matter what we do? 

 

It feels as though you're saying we shouldn't interfere, or else more issues will arrive.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Qwark said:

Why would an islam extremist accept a new testament? Unfortunately Islam is a religion to which you really can't do anything, unless the high Ayatolla allows that. I don't see the Ayatolla's care very much for Western problems to rewrite the Quran or make a new testament. So the problem we have with Islam is that we co-relate terrorism and islam. Acts of terror happen all over the world and poverty and depravity are usually the cause not some religion.

Even though I neglect every religion and don't think neither the Islam or Christianity brought anything upon the world but making it a miserable place, crusades, corruption pedophilia, wars, the Israel situation, well you get my point. We don't have a muslim problem, but an integration problem which comes form white Europeans and Americans not fully accepting muslims in their society. This act of discrimination is one of the reasons muslims divert more to crime and even terrorism. So to solve our terrorist problem we either need to take better care of those with a different view on Western society and accepting and involving them in society as good as possible.

Or neglect the idea of religion all together in Western society, the Netherlands counts over 55% of it's citizens being Atheist already. Which means that all our schools, laws, political parties should be separated from religion entirely, which is pretty much not possible. So that leaves us to take better care of our immigrants no matter which generation and try to keep the temptation for joining a terrorist cause low and fight those who offer terrorism towards European youngsters who might fall for it. The Islam is just a tool to convert youth into terrorism fighting the tool is not fighting the root of the problem, which is the tension between white and non whites in Western society and the unequal treatment.

I've already stated that the option for no religion is impossible. If we are going to gain such large amounts of refugees, then why don't we make them gain a secular education in order to make more people against islamic extremism?

 

Also, I thought I'd want to point this out, I wonder why most refugees are males. 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton said:
avais1993 said:
Islam and culture do not go hand in hand, there are 1.6 billion Muslims from across the world, from all nations and backgrounds, it was not made to be a cultural thing, rather it's a way of life. I don't like how in your initial post you labelled extremism as "true Islam". Islam in it's very essence is a peaceful religion, and if the teachings of Muhammed PBUH were followed properly by ALL Muslims then the world would be a much peaceful place for it.

The only way to get rid of extremism would be to have a caliphate with a leader, with one set of rules and principles. This would probably deter so much confusion and animosity, and stop youth from following brainwashed extremist idiots who pervert the messages in the Quraan in order to cause chaos. And no I don't accept a "modernised" Islam as the message is already as perfect as it can be. There's nothing wrong with Islam, it's the people who corrupt the message which need sorting out.

Listen. When I say true islam is peaceful, I'm labelled as a Muslim in disguise who is practicing taqiyyeh. If I say true islam is violent, I'm labelled as a Muslim hater who just wants to bash on muslims.

 

Who labels you that? I'm not labelling you as anything or judging you, i'm just giving you my opinion, i'm not a Muslim in disguise when I say Islam is a peaceful religion, I am a Muslim, and glad that i am one.  Muslims for hundreds of years lived alongside Jew's and Christians in different nations around the world. Islamic extremism is a recent invention, which may have been caused by the "modernising of islam". There's always two sides of the coin, Islam used to be balanced, now it's either a modern liberal muslim, or an extremist muslim, what needs to happen is a Caliphate who can bring that balance and restore it back to it's original value's.  



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Recent favourite games: Ni No Kuni, Fifa 13, Batman Arkham City

Best games of all time: Pokemon Red, Dragon Warrior 3, The last of us, Uncharted 2 and 3

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avais1993 said:
hershel_layton said:

Listen. When I say true islam is peaceful, I'm labelled as a Muslim in disguise who is practicing taqiyyeh. If I say true islam is violent, I'm labelled as a Muslim hater who just wants to bash on muslims.

 

Who labels you that? I'm not labelling you as anything or judging you, i'm just giving you my opinion, i'm not a Muslim in disguise when I say Islam is a peaceful religion, I am a Muslim, and glad that i am one.  Muslims for hundreds of years lived alongside Jew's and Christians in different nations around the world. Islamic extremism is a recent invention, which may have been caused by the "modernising of islam". There's always two sides of the coin, Islam used to be balanced, now it's either a modern liberal muslim, or an extremist muslim, what needs to happen is a Caliphate who can bring that balance and restore it back to it's original value's.  

I've always been fine with islam in general. I have nothing against it. Considering how I live in a place with a lot of Muslims, I'm able to learn more about them and not generalise all of them into one group.

 

The only issue I see is that there's always a small group of people who begin to spread corrupt viewpoints. Sounds like a small issue, but if these people were to ever teach a group of kids or go give a speech during Friday prayer, what do you think happens? That's how ISIS itself works. Without spreading the message, they most likely would have never reached 10000 men. It's how anyone in history gained power, whether if they were good or bad. 

 

Saying that, I believe we have a great amount of scholars in the secular regions who will continue to spread the message of islam. They can be the key to helping out with the refugees who still have backwards thinking 



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton said:
Qwark said:

Why would an islam extremist accept a new testament? Unfortunately Islam is a religion to which you really can't do anything, unless the high Ayatolla allows that. I don't see the Ayatolla's care very much for Western problems to rewrite the Quran or make a new testament. So the problem we have with Islam is that we co-relate terrorism and islam. Acts of terror happen all over the world and poverty and depravity are usually the cause not some religion.

Even though I neglect every religion and don't think neither the Islam or Christianity brought anything upon the world but making it a miserable place, crusades, corruption pedophilia, wars, the Israel situation, well you get my point. We don't have a muslim problem, but an integration problem which comes form white Europeans and Americans not fully accepting muslims in their society. This act of discrimination is one of the reasons muslims divert more to crime and even terrorism. So to solve our terrorist problem we either need to take better care of those with a different view on Western society and accepting and involving them in society as good as possible.

Or neglect the idea of religion all together in Western society, the Netherlands counts over 55% of it's citizens being Atheist already. Which means that all our schools, laws, political parties should be separated from religion entirely, which is pretty much not possible. So that leaves us to take better care of our immigrants no matter which generation and try to keep the temptation for joining a terrorist cause low and fight those who offer terrorism towards European youngsters who might fall for it. The Islam is just a tool to convert youth into terrorism fighting the tool is not fighting the root of the problem, which is the tension between white and non whites in Western society and the unequal treatment.

I've already stated that the option for no religion is impossible. If we are going to gain such large amounts of refugees, then why don't we make them gain a secular education in order to make more people against islamic extremism?

 

Also, I thought I'd want to point this out, I wonder why most refugees are males. 

Most reffugees being male is probably due to either some of them being assholes and cowards and leaving their family behind for selfish reasons. The other might be that traveling to Europe is tough enough without a child and it's safer to fly them into Europe as part of family reunation. Education and religion is one of those things that defenitly should be sepperated. We should use some propoganda against joining terrorism though, make a few adverts for them. Let our national tv stations broadcast some documantaries about the subject. But our terroristic problems lies at third or fourth generation immigrants which got lured into terrorism not our reeffugees. They know what a combination of Islam and law results in when people demand change and I very much doubt they are a fan of the result. Anyway I think the sollution to our terrorist problem lies in fighting discrimination and educate people in general and about terrorism. As a result people will move away from things like terrorism and hopefully eventually religion, which hasn't brought anything good to begin with.

 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar