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Forums - Politics Discussion - Atomic bomb survivors want an apology from Obama.

lol ya right. They don't deserve an apology for that. Don't start a war if you can't handle the consequences



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Harkins1721 said:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/19/apology-question-hounds-obamas-planned-visit-hiroshima/84589324/

 

He'd probably do it too. Should Pearl Harbor survivors ask for an apology from Japan?

Umm one was military the other was civilian they're nothing a like.



Pearl harbor = military base

Hiroshima, Nagasaki = towns with mostly civillians

Yep and for some dropping nuclear bombs two times on a town justifies it because a military base was attacked. Also Japan never capitulated because of the nukes but only when the USSR entered the war against Japan and invaded Korea and Manchuria. The United States dropped these bombs to show it to the Soviets.

 

 

Angelus said:
lol ya right. They don't deserve an apology for that. Don't start a war if you can't handle the consequences

The US started the war with trade embargos and refusing to trade their Oil, why you think they made this huge military base on pearl harbor in the rirst place? they were preperaing for war against Japan it was inventable. 



Jon-Erich said:
Soundwave said:

There is some controversy actually on whether the US had to drop the bombs or not.

By that stage in the war, the US had Japan completely surrounded and cut off from supplies/oil/etc. Many people have said Japan would have surrendered in a couple of weeks anyway.

Some have speculated the real reason to drop nukes on Japan was to send a message to other countries like Russia that the US was the new "big dog".

There is also some evidence that Russia was planning to move on Japan, so the US decided to move first and decisively. Using nukes would deter the Russians. 

Oh yeah, the Russians had every intention in moving in on Japan. The atom bombs not only brought a quick surrender but it also sent a message to the Russians to stay away. The Emperor and his advisors also feared the Russians but the extreme right-wing element of the Japanese imperial army who were encouraging citizens to fight to the death and were also trying to take over the government while holding the Emperor hostage didn't give a shit about the Russians. But again, history was on Japan's side. What happened in Germany and Korea could have easily happened in Japan. It didn't. As I said before, out of all the terrible decisions that were made, the ussage of the atom bombs were the least terrible. If anything, they saved Japan.

If the US did drop nukes on Japan for the main purpose of showing up the Russians though ... it's hard to look at that event as anything other than a massive war crime. 

The narrative that dropping the nukes to prevent a ground war do seem to be a bit dubious considering the US had Japan at that point completely cut off and surrounded without the ability to resupply itself. 



Ka-pi96 said:
Ruler said:

The US started the war with trade embargos and refusing to trade their Oil, why you think they made this huge military base on pearl harbor in the rirst place? they were preperaing for war against Japan it was inventable. 

A trade embargo is not the start of a war...

Besides, it was a fully justified embargo after Japan had attacked China etc...

Yes its the start of the war same is true for germany.

And where was the embargo against britain when they attacked hong kong, or when the US colonized the phillepines? 



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Ruler said:

Pearl harbor = military base

Hiroshima, Nagasaki = towns with mostly civillians

Yep and for some dropping nuclear bombs two times on a town justifies it because a military base was attacked. Also Japan never capitulated because of the nukes but only when the USSR entered the war against Japan and invaded Korea and Manchuria. The United States dropped these bombs to show it to the Soviets.

 

 

Angelus said:
lol ya right. They don't deserve an apology for that. Don't start a war if you can't handle the consequences

The US started the war with trade embargos and refusing to trade their Oil, why you think they made this huge military base on pearl harbor in the rirst place? they were preperaing for war against Japan it was inventable. 

As I said before, Japan didn't just attack a military base. They occupied territories such as Wake Island, Guam, and the Philippines where both military and cililian populations brutally tortured and murdered by the Japanese Imperial Army. That's just the US side of it. Go ahead and ask the Chinese and Koreans how good Japan was to them. I would never approve of doing things for the sake of vengeance, but by the end of the way, Japan had pissed off quite a few people.

As for the embargo, the embargo was put in place because Roosevelt had learned that oil from the US was fueling Japan's war in the far east. The idea was that by cutting off the oild supply, Japan would have to pull out of China. Japan felt that since America was largely an isolationist nation at the time, that an attack would not only keep the US out of the Pacific for a while but also bring them to the negotiating table. None of that happened. Still, the embargo was fairly justified. Would you want to sell something to another country knowing that what your selling them is causing an unjustified war to take place?



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Ruler said:
Angelus said:
lol ya right. They don't deserve an apology for that. Don't start a war if you can't handle the consequences

The US started the war with trade embargos and refusing to trade their Oil, why you think they made this huge military base on pearl harbor in the rirst place? they were preperaing for war against Japan it was inventable. 

Placing an embargo doesn't constitute starting a war, unless you wish to tell me that we were recently at war with Russia too lol

Building military bases in your own country, equally, doesn't constitute starting a war. You don't really have a leg to stand on here



Jon-Erich said:
Ruler said:

Pearl harbor = military base

Hiroshima, Nagasaki = towns with mostly civillians

Yep and for some dropping nuclear bombs two times on a town justifies it because a military base was attacked. Also Japan never capitulated because of the nukes but only when the USSR entered the war against Japan and invaded Korea and Manchuria. The United States dropped these bombs to show it to the Soviets.

 

 

The US started the war with trade embargos and refusing to trade their Oil, why you think they made this huge military base on pearl harbor in the rirst place? they were preperaing for war against Japan it was inventable. 

As I said before, Japan didn't just attack a military base. They occupied territories such as Wake Island, Guam, and the Philippines where both military and cililian populations brutally tortured and murdered by the Japanese Imperial Army. That's just the US side of it. Go ahead and ask the Chinese and Koreans how good Japan was to them. I would never approve of doing things for the sake of vengeance, but by the end of the way, Japan had pissed off quite a few people.

As for the embargo, the embargo was put in place because Roosevelt had learned that oil from the US was fueling Japan's war in the far east. The idea was that by cutting off the oild supply, Japan would have to pull out of China. Japan felt that since America was largely an isolationist nation at the time, that an attack would not only keep the US out of the Pacific for a while but also bring them to the negotiating table. None of that happened. Still, the embargo was fairly justified. Would you want to sell something to another country knowing that what your selling them is causing an unjustified war to take place?

So why is the US selling weapons right now around the world to questionable countries? Like Saudi Arabia making war against syria and yemen?

great so the US cried about Japan colonizing US colonies?

 



Soundwave said:
Jon-Erich said:

Oh yeah, the Russians had every intention in moving in on Japan. The atom bombs not only brought a quick surrender but it also sent a message to the Russians to stay away. The Emperor and his advisors also feared the Russians but the extreme right-wing element of the Japanese imperial army who were encouraging citizens to fight to the death and were also trying to take over the government while holding the Emperor hostage didn't give a shit about the Russians. But again, history was on Japan's side. What happened in Germany and Korea could have easily happened in Japan. It didn't. As I said before, out of all the terrible decisions that were made, the ussage of the atom bombs were the least terrible. If anything, they saved Japan.

If the US did drop nukes on Japan for the main purpose of showing up the Russians though ... it's hard to look at that event as anything other than a massive war crime. 

The narrative that dropping the nukes to prevent a ground war do seem to be a bit dubious considering the US had Japan at that point completely cut off and surrounded without the ability to resupply itself. 

Have you even read about the force Japan had amassed to meet a mainland invasion?  Operation Ketsugo?  And the ferocity of the battles throughout the Pacific?  Japan had repeatedly fought with intensity well beyond the point of hopelessness.  They had demonstrated their willingness to go to extraordinary, even near suicidal tactics like bonsai charges against far superior numbers, to keep up the fighting.  The US had no reason to believe that wouldn't be the case.  

Seriously, read up on the projected outcomes of Operation Downfall and the measures of Japan in Operation Ketsugo.  The Japanese even planned to pull from all males 15 to 60 and all females 17 to 40 to aid in the battle.  Casualties were expected to be extraordinary.  Also, they anticipated they would likely need nukes or near-equal destructive weapons to succeed without casualties climbing to outright ludicrous levels.



Trump: Not only no apology to Japan, but all Pokemon are now banned in the US. We just can't trust them some could be hentai rapists and murderers. A wall will be built on our Eastern seaboard to keep Pokemon out and North Korea will pay for it (because Trump).