Security doesn't matter if there's no freedom.

Freedom. If you are willing to allow the government to take your freedom away, you will lose security sooner or later. It's a classic manipulation strategy: the government won't fix a security problem while arguing that it needs more power to fix the problem. In the end, it only wants the power.

Ask people in Cuba if they felt safe when Che was shooting everyone that opposed the revolution. Ask if people felt safe when Mao started the Grand Famine. Ask if anyone on North Korea feels safe. Well, they will probably say that they do feel safe, after decades of brainwashing to believe they live in the best place ever.

Think Venezuela. It wasn't a very good place 20 year ago. But now? It's in shambles. Maduro does what he wants and is ruining the country.

I'm from Brazil. Less than 30 year ago, we lived on a dictatorial regime. People were tortured, civil rights were non-existent. People here are already forgetting how important freedom is. We have even some people that now believe the regime was great. In the US and the EU, you probably already forgot how it to live without freedom, so you start to not give it its real value.

If I had to pick one or the other then freedom. Of course a middle ground is ideal.

Freedom easily. I know people who have basic level security clearance for jobs they have in banking, interfaith, politics and when applying for these jobs you have to declare everything you do:

Browsing habits, relationships, general habits, your friend circle, sexual habits etc. Not only do you have to declare it, they then check everything too.

The reality is most of us have already have lost our freedom. The difference is we haven't done anything to piss anyone off to use that information against us.

A middle ground.

Accountability for your "freedom" doesn't necessarily equal a lack of freedom. Someone could know where you live, what you eat, what your shopping habits are and you can still have 100% freedom. Equally freedom is of no use when someone elses choices or "freedom" overide your own, but that someone else may very well be the same powers intended to protect you. Powers given up to secure your "security" may well in fact make you more vulnerable. So there is no simple answer :p

Actually I'll add that accepting law of any kind is giving up "Freedom" and law has been essential to us functioning in large social communities.

Simple way to remain free from those secret Gubbermint eyes that look at you...get rid of any smart device or leave it at home. So very simple.

Somebody who gives up one for the other deserves neither

fatslob-:O said: Why can't we have both or even a middle ground ?

Because making a more secure and safer country inherently takes away freedoms. There is a middle ground that i slikely what should be aimed for, but you can't just straight up have both. 

Great argument. Nowadays people paint everything as black-and-white.

As for people asking why I don't offer a middle ground, it's due to my reasoning(that can be flawed); once you offer your information to the government, freedom in terms of private information and such will forever be gone. They'll always have it, and your information will be easily accessible for many companies.