By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft Vetoed A Black Woman On Cover For Fable II

GribbleGrunger on 13 May 2016

Ex-Lionhead art director recalls marketing department "just didn't get it," insisted on a white male for Xbox 360 RPG

Lionhead

One of the selling points for Fable II was greater character customization. As former Lionhead art director John McCormack described in a new Eurogamer feature chronicling the studio's history, it was such a significant addition he wanted to feature it by putting a black woman on the game's packaging, only to have Microsoft's marketing department nix the idea.

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman," McCormack said. "And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

McCormack was also dismayed at the marketing department's insistence on selling the game as a standard fantasy RPG, rather than a story with a comedic bent.

"They were going, what are you making? An RPG? Right, dragons and shit. And that was their advert," McCormack said. "And we were like, no, ours is a Monty Python-esque comedy. And they went, look, we know how to market RPGs. And they opened the RPG marketing drawer and pulled out a picture of a dragon that wasn't even in the game and went there you go. That's your market. The market for that game is your average Dungeons & Dragons fare. And we were like, this game's totally different."

Check out the full feature for more anecdotes from the studio, including details about its acquisition by Microsoft, the cancellation of Kinect showpiece Milo and Kate, and the pitch for Fable 4 that Microsoft turned down.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-05-12-microsoft-vetoed-a-black-woman-on-cover-for-fable-ii



 

The PS5 Exists. 


Around the Network
KLXVER on 13 May 2016
GribbleGrunger said:
"They were going, what are you making? An RPG? Right, dragons and shit. And that was their advert," McCormack said. "And we were like, no, ours is a Monty Python-esque comedy. And they went, look, we know how to market RPGs. And they opened the RPG marketing drawer and pulled out a picture of a dragon that wasn't even in the game and went there you go. That's your market. The market for that game is your average Dungeons & Dragons fare. And we were like, this game's totally different."

 

Dont say that. Ugh...youll never live up to that statement...



CosmicSex on 13 May 2016

When publishers interfere like this bad this happen. From my perspective, its should be up to the developers what they want to do with their game. It their vision, they are the ones creating it. A publisher should have faith in the vision of the development team .

"And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it."

I think I'm gonna be sick.... looks at Gears 4.  Prays to God that Microsoft actually lets the developers make what they want instead of depending on a white man on the cover to sell it.   Reading this, you get the feeling that Microsoft depended more on their marketing team to sell games than the talent of their developers.  Now I'm sad...


"They were going, what are you making? An RPG? Right, dragons and shit. And that was their advert"

Yikes.

"And they opened the RPG marketing drawer and pulled out a picture of a dragon that wasn't even in the game and went there you go. That's your market."

Good Lord. This is why Microsoft IPs are losing steam.   What a vicious philosophy that hampers your developers.  



SvennoJ on 13 May 2016

Sad it has to come to the usual click bait quotes, the full feature is one of the best articles I've read in a long time. A fascinating look inside the industry. Take some time and read it, it's fully worth it, real games journalism is rare nowadays. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-12-lionhead-the-inside-story



StarOcean on 13 May 2016

I'm sorry, but I would have to agree with MS on this. From a financial point of view it makes more sense to have a white dude on the cover versus a black woman. And its unfortunate but at the end of the day MS wants to sell a product and using a white guy on the cover is safer and ensures money than taking a risk



Around the Network
KLXVER on 13 May 2016
StarOcean said:
I'm sorry, but I would have to agree with MS on this. From a financial point of view it makes more sense to have a white dude on the cover versus a black woman. And its unfortunate but at the end of the day MS wants to sell a product and using a white guy on the cover is safer and ensures money than taking a risk

Just like Bioshock Infinite had to have a guy with a gun on the cover.



CosmicSex on 13 May 2016
StarOcean said:
I'm sorry, but I would have to agree with MS on this. From a financial point of view it makes more sense to have a white dude on the cover versus a black woman. And its unfortunate but at the end of the day MS wants to sell a product and using a white guy on the cover is safer and ensures money than taking a risk

I have to disagree, because it makes it sound like Microsoft doesn't have faith in their developers and instead falls back on sad tired tropes.  A good game will sell itself.  Cultivate your developers and let their talent sale your games.   Also, it makes gamers look like simpleminded and thats insulting.  As a gamer, would you not buy a game because it had a black lady on the cover?  I would like to believe that most gamers will play a good game regardless of who is on the cover.    Its not the 1960s anymore.  I think they underestimate us.



KLXVER on 13 May 2016
CosmicSex said:
StarOcean said:
I'm sorry, but I would have to agree with MS on this. From a financial point of view it makes more sense to have a white dude on the cover versus a black woman. And its unfortunate but at the end of the day MS wants to sell a product and using a white guy on the cover is safer and ensures money than taking a risk

I have to disagree, because it makes it sound like Microsoft doesn't have faith in their developers and instead falls back on sad tired tropes.  A good game will sell itself.  Cultivate your developers and let their talent sale your games.   Also, it makes gamers look like simpleminded and thats insulting.  As a gamer, would you not buy a game because it had a black lady on the cover?  I would like to believe that most gamers will play a good game regardless of who is on the cover.  

This happens all the time unfortunately. Just like Sony not wanting a black James Bond.



CosmicSex on 13 May 2016
KLXVER said:
CosmicSex said:

I have to disagree, because it makes it sound like Microsoft doesn't have faith in their developers and instead falls back on sad tired tropes.  A good game will sell itself.  Cultivate your developers and let their talent sale your games.   Also, it makes gamers look like simpleminded and thats insulting.  As a gamer, would you not buy a game because it had a black lady on the cover?  I would like to believe that most gamers will play a good game regardless of who is on the cover.  

This happens all the time unfortunately. Just like Sony not wanting a black James Bond.

Agreed.  Its a shame.   



Aeolus451 on 13 May 2016

I can see why he's the former art director. Anyway, I can agree with him on "And we were like, no, ours is a Monty Python-esque comedy. And they went, look, we know how to market RPGs. And they opened the RPG marketing drawer and pulled out a picture of a dragon that wasn't even in the game and went there you go. That's your market. The market for that game is your average Dungeons & Dragons fare. And we were like, this game's totally different." but i disagree with him about the black woman vs white male on cover of the game or in marketing. 12% vs 60%? Gee I wonder which demographic should we to market towards?