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Forums - General Discussion - Whose political platform you favor in terms of green energy?

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Which stance do you favor?

Progressive 13 56.52%
 
Conservative 10 43.48%
 
Total:23
mornelithe said:
Goatseye said:

That's all nice and dandy; however, the technology is expanding beyond US. India, one of worlds biggest oil consumer, is on the verge of digging multiple shale oil wells enough to cut their foreign depence on oil starting 2017. From now on, it's not just Russian economy that's gonna be expecting low returns on oil sales.

Please stop moving the goalposts.  You asked if we were going to directly compete with Venezuela, Saudi Arabia etc..., and I said we already are, not only that, it would appear we're colluding with Saudi Arabia to quite literally pummel the oil/natural gas prices to hurt the Russian economy.  If India starts producing Shale oil, that just impacts the global price of oil and natural gas more and further destabilizes the Russian economy...pretty sure the US is ok with that.  And besides, it's not like the US Government can stop Shale oil production, it's not Government controlled, only a Congressional action likely based upon environmental concerns, could impact shale production in the US.  The US is a free market/capitalist economy, it is NOT like OPEC.  The article I linked talks about that fact.

What goal post am I moving? We haven't lifted the ban on oil export yet, have we?

Additionally, the price/barrell won't be that much better than foreign oil. Especially, when the technology proliferates by the time the ban lifts.

US doesn't control oil production but it damn well controls the tax they pay.



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Aeolus451 said:
Goatseye said:

And I'm glad.

That's very shortsighted of democrats. i kinda knew your position from the OP when you mention fracking. 

That's very shortsighted of you. Democrats are in bed with oil industry.

I'm not hiding my preferences or opinion. 



Goatseye said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's very shortsighted of democrats. i kinda knew your position from the OP when you mention fracking. 

That's very shortsighted of you. Democrats are in bed with oil industry.

I'm not hiding my preferences or opinion. 

Didn't obama block that pipeline?



Goatseye said:

What goal post am I moving? We haven't lifted the ban on oil export yet, have we?

Additionally, the price/barrell won't be that much better than foreign oil. Especially, when the technology proliferates by the time the ban lifts.

US doesn't control oil production but it damn well controls the tax they pay.

The US already lifted bans on oil exports since last holiday so as mornelithe said, please stop moving goalposts ... 

As a reply from your other response, hail Trump indeed ...



Goatseye said:
mornelithe said:

Please stop moving the goalposts.  You asked if we were going to directly compete with Venezuela, Saudi Arabia etc..., and I said we already are, not only that, it would appear we're colluding with Saudi Arabia to quite literally pummel the oil/natural gas prices to hurt the Russian economy.  If India starts producing Shale oil, that just impacts the global price of oil and natural gas more and further destabilizes the Russian economy...pretty sure the US is ok with that.  And besides, it's not like the US Government can stop Shale oil production, it's not Government controlled, only a Congressional action likely based upon environmental concerns, could impact shale production in the US.  The US is a free market/capitalist economy, it is NOT like OPEC.  The article I linked talks about that fact.

What goal post am I moving? We haven't lifted the ban on oil export yet, have we?

Additionally, the price/barrell won't be that much better than foreign oil. Especially, when the technology proliferates by the time the ban lifts.

US doesn't control oil production but it damn well controls the tax they pay.

You asked a question, I answered the question, and informed you of apparently several things you weren't aware of.   You then brought up India, clearly without thinking through what I'd written, since India producing shale would continue to negatively impact the demand for oil.  Has the US lowered Shale oil/natural gas production?  The US consumes a gigantic amount of oil and natural gas, the more we produce at home, floods the market and lowers the prices, and as I said, negatively impacting Russia (and Iran's) economy.  This is what the US Government wants.  And will very likely continue to do so.



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mornelithe said:
Goatseye said:

What goal post am I moving? We haven't lifted the ban on oil export yet, have we?

Additionally, the price/barrell won't be that much better than foreign oil. Especially, when the technology proliferates by the time the ban lifts.

US doesn't control oil production but it damn well controls the tax they pay.

You asked a question, I answered the question, and informed you of apparently several things you weren't aware of.   You then brought up India, clearly without thinking through what I'd written, since India producing shale would continue to negatively impact the demand for oil.  Has the US lowered Shale oil/natural gas production?  The US consumes a gigantic amount of oil and natural gas, the more we produce at home, floods the market and lowers the prices, and as I said, negatively impacting Russia (and Iran's) economy.  This is what the US Government wants.  And will very likely continue to do so.

I'm not interested in political propagandas.

I wasn't aware of the US's removal of oil exporting ban. I followed it last year but didn't pick up on it.

I was sure we were still under the policy signed in 75. All I was reading was shale oil companies going belly up because the price/barrell wasn't enough to keep their business afloat.  

US hasn't lowered their production in general because a lot of shale oil companies are drilling even while filing for bankruptcy. But most can't get a contract for new wells. Also, banks are lowering the credit they once showered the energy companies with. 

I brought India because they are becoming more and more self sufficient with new wells they're digging and that's the panorama of the big oil consumers in Asia. They're starting to become more self sufficient and exporting in the process. This is the case of Japan and China.

This is not having a great impact on a lot of oil companies in the US that have been filing for bankruptcy.

Just to chime in on propaganda buzz, Gazprom can just sit and chill on natural gas sales in Europe while waiting for oil demand to go up again with less actors on the market and resume business. 



Goatseye said:
mornelithe said:

You asked a question, I answered the question, and informed you of apparently several things you weren't aware of.   You then brought up India, clearly without thinking through what I'd written, since India producing shale would continue to negatively impact the demand for oil.  Has the US lowered Shale oil/natural gas production?  The US consumes a gigantic amount of oil and natural gas, the more we produce at home, floods the market and lowers the prices, and as I said, negatively impacting Russia (and Iran's) economy.  This is what the US Government wants.  And will very likely continue to do so.

I'm not interested in political propagandas.

I wasn't aware of the US's removal of oil exporting ban. I followed it last year but didn't pick up on it.

I was sure we were still under the policy signed in 75. All I was reading was shale oil companies going belly up because the price/barrell wasn't enough to keep their business afloat.  

US hasn't lowered their production in general because a lot of shale oil companies are drilling even while filing for bankruptcy. But most can't get a contract for new wells. Also, banks are lowering the credit they once showered the energy companies with. 

I brought India because they are becoming more and more self sufficient with new wells they're digging and that's the panorama of the big oil consumers in Asia. They're starting to become more self sufficient and exporting in the process. This is the case of Japan and China.

This is not having a great impact on a lot of oil companies in the US that have been filing for bankruptcy.

Just to chime in on propaganda buzz, Gazprom can just sit and chill on natural gas sales in Europe while waiting for oil demand to go up again with less actors on the market and resume business. 

No, you're missing the point here.  Unlike OPEC, the US Cannot just tell shale oil producers to stop.  They don't have that authority, the oil and gas industry is not Government owned.  So it doesn't matter what the US wants to do in this regard.  Yeah, shale companies were going belly up, but not all of them, and certainly not enough to ignore the fact that the US is sitting on absurd stores of Shale oil and natural gas.  Enough to actually impact Russia and Iran's economies.  And whether it's exported or not, doesn't really matter, if the US can produce absurd levels of oil/gas, they've no reason to import it, which is tantamount to flooding the European and Asian markets.  Driving prices way, way down because Saudi Arabia wasn't (not sure if they still are) cutting back on their produciton.  Again, to impact Russia.

As stated previously, the only way the US could even think of curtailing Shale oil production is through an enviromental issue, which is plausible given all the negative PR fracking has gotten with regards to water supplies.



mornelithe said:
Goatseye said:

I'm not interested in political propagandas.

I wasn't aware of the US's removal of oil exporting ban. I followed it last year but didn't pick up on it.

I was sure we were still under the policy signed in 75. All I was reading was shale oil companies going belly up because the price/barrell wasn't enough to keep their business afloat.  

US hasn't lowered their production in general because a lot of shale oil companies are drilling even while filing for bankruptcy. But most can't get a contract for new wells. Also, banks are lowering the credit they once showered the energy companies with. 

I brought India because they are becoming more and more self sufficient with new wells they're digging and that's the panorama of the big oil consumers in Asia. They're starting to become more self sufficient and exporting in the process. This is the case of Japan and China.

This is not having a great impact on a lot of oil companies in the US that have been filing for bankruptcy.

Just to chime in on propaganda buzz, Gazprom can just sit and chill on natural gas sales in Europe while waiting for oil demand to go up again with less actors on the market and resume business. 

No, you're missing the point here.  Unlike OPEC, the US Cannot just tell shale oil producers to stop.  They don't have that authority, the oil and gas industry is not Government owned.  So it doesn't matter what the US wants to do in this regard.  Yeah, shale companies were going belly up, but not all of them, and certainly not enough to ignore the fact that the US is sitting on absurd stores of Shale oil and natural gas.  Enough to actually impact Russia and Iran's economies.  And whether it's exported or not, doesn't really matter, if the US can produce absurd levels of oil/gas, they've no reason to import it, which is tantamount to flooding the European and Asian markets.  Driving prices way, way down because Saudi Arabia wasn't (not sure if they still are) cutting back on their produciton.  Again, to impact Russia.

As stated previously, the only way the US could even think of curtailing Shale oil production is through an enviromental issue, which is plausible given all the negative PR fracking has gotten with regards to water supplies.

Bruh, where did I say companies are state owned? I'm talking US as a whole because I'm trying to explain the market within the US and outside.

Saudi Arabia is just producing 8 mil barrels a day, the deal is for them to go lower but they're already feeling the pressure of having low revenues for the past  year and a half. They're threathning to produce 11 million barrels a day. That would totally throw the market into disarray, especially when Iran is refusing to keep their production low, when they have to expand into the market to gain some share.