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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PSN alone almost generated the same sales than all of Nintendo in 2015

Teeqoz on 24 April 2016
RolStoppable said:
setsunatenshi said:

you mentioned the profits from gaming earlier in your original post. does this graphic show the results from the SCE branch or of Sony as a whole? and why does it stop at 2011? thanks

Yes, the graph shows the results of SCE, not Sony as a whole. The reason why there has been no newer graph is that Sony combined several divisions for the fiscal year that would be labeled as 12 if a newer graph consisted. As far as I remember, PlayStation shared a division with unsuccessful products like TVs and Vaio, so the division posted a huge loss. Sony didn't provide a breakdown for the individual product lines, so it's impossible to create a complete chart. Nowadays PlayStation has its own division again.

The graph I posted shows SCE's profits during the years that PlayStation had its own division. The graph ends right before the point where Sony lumped several product lines together. After a couple of years PS was its own division again.

Rol, I'll help you out, because I think we get along nicely

FY 12 was actually the year gaming got its own segment again, after being lumped with a bunch of other stuff for FY 2009-2011. So it's quite the opposite of what you are saying here. However, in their FY 2012 report, they also gave numbers for the gaming segment for FY 2011, for comparative purposes, so we have numbers for Sony's gaming segment from FY2011 and onwards. That leaves FY 2009 and FY 2010 obscured.

 

Clearly, the reason your graph doesn't continue has nothing to do with divisions being lumped together, because it ends just before they stopped being lumped together.

 

Other than that, I agree with some of what you are saying. Nintendo achieves much higher margins than Sony due to their emphasis on 1st party software vs 3rd party software, and the fact that Sony has had a loss-leading strategy, but in your posts here, you've made the same mistake Kapi did in his post, by implying one or the other is smarter for a company in general. We both know that Sony's current strategy is a much smarter choice for them than if they were to adopt Nintendo's strategy. Likewise, Nintendo's current strategy (or what they've usually done, anyway, minus the Wii U and the 3DS) is much smarter for them than if they were to adopt Sony's strategy.



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LudicrousSpeed on 24 April 2016

No offense intended, but who cares? Sony charges for online, which is where a huge amount of that money comes from. Also the only thing that really matters is how much of that revenue for Sony is actual profit, versus how much of Nintendo's is actual profit.



Viktor on 24 April 2016

Would be interesting to know what percentage of this revenue is made up by the paywall-scam subscription fee.

 

User was moderated for this post ~ CGI-Quality



Teeqoz on 24 April 2016
RolStoppable said:
Teeqoz said:

Rol, I'll help you out, because I think we get along nicely

FY 12 was actually the year gaming got its own segment again, after being lumped with a bunch of other stuff for FY 2009-2011. So it's quite the opposite of what you are saying here. However, in their FY 2012 report, they also gave numbers for the gaming segment for FY 2011, for comparative purposes, so we have numbers for Sony's gaming segment from FY2011 and onwards. That leaves FY 2009 and FY 2010 obscured.

Clearly, the reason your graph doesn't continue has nothing to do with divisions being lumped together, because it ends just before they stopped being lumped together.

Other than that, I agree with some of what you are saying. Nintendo achieves much higher margins than Sony due to their emphasis on 1st party software vs 3rd party software, and the fact that Sony has had a loss-leading strategy, but in your posts here, you've made the same mistake Kapi did in his post, by implying one or the other is smarter for a company in general. We both know that Sony's current strategy is a much smarter choice for them than if they were to adopt Nintendo's strategy. Likewise, Nintendo's current strategy (or what they've usually done, anyway, minus the Wii U and the 3DS) is much smarter for them than if they were to adopt Sony's strategy.

Is that so? I only remember a year with a huge loss that couldn't possibly be from gaming and that one wasn't on the chart, so I thought I got the timeline correct.

Such an implication wasn't my intent, but if you say that it is a possible way to interpret my posts, then it's necessary to set the record straight. I definitely agree with you that Nintendo's way to profits doesn't work for Sony and vice versa. The companies are set up very differently and consumer expectations for both are also very different.

You are correct in that there was a year where the segment where the gaming division was located in made something like a 3 billion loss, but you missed on the fiscal year (it was FY2011, not 2012). Your chart just isn't aligned with Sony's fiscal years, so FY2011 would be 2012 in the chart, which I guess is why you mixed the two.

 

For the record, Sony's gaming segment in FY2011 posted a 30 Bn Yen profit, then 1.7 Bn Yen in FY2012, -19 Bn Yen (loss) in FY2013, 48 Bn Yen in FY2014 and they'll likely end up somewhere inbetween 80 and 90 Bn Yen for FY2015.



Proxy-Pie on 24 April 2016

Dem subsciption fees doin' em good.



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Teeqoz on 24 April 2016
RolStoppable said:
Teeqoz said:

You are correct in that there was a year where the segment where the gaming division was located in made something like a 3 billion loss, but you missed on the fiscal year (it was FY2011, not 2012). Your chart just isn't aligned with Sony's fiscal years, so FY2011 would be 2012 in the chart, which I guess is why you mixed the two.

For the record, Sony's gaming segment in FY2011 posted a 30 Bn Yen profit, then 1.7 Bn Yen in FY2012, -19 Bn Yen (loss) in FY2013, 48 Bn Yen in FY2014 and they'll likely end up somewhere inbetween 80 and 90 Bn Yen for FY2015.

I suppose only the conclusion is missing, now that you posted those numbers. Is my claim that "Nintendo's single-biggest year in profits from video games is greater than the profits Sony made through PlayStation's entire lifetime" correct? What do you say?

Certainly.



Kerotan on 24 April 2016
MohammadBadir said:
Dem subsciption fees doin' em good.

Yeah ps plus is an incredible service.  It's crazy the amount of games I've gotten thanks to it over the last 5 years or so.  And most of them most enjoyable. 



Swordmasterman on 24 April 2016
mountaindewslave said:

bear in mind revenue and profit are not the same thing. Sony has gigantic revenues across their whole company, but they've still be losing money on average. as another example, they had gigantic revenues in their video game division during the PS2 / PSP era yet lost money....... :/ 

 

don't be fooled by revenue. its gross. not profit. Granted you would assume they are making lots of money from network game sales as there is no costly distribution or complications, however Sony is probably losing money from the sale of their hardware among other things so it likely evens out.

of course with the failing Wii U Nintendo's revenues can't compete, even with the popular PLaystation network.

I would debate it is not really that valuable of a stat though. If you want to start comparing things and why its sort of irrelevant (the revenue), then compare what revenue Valve pulls in through Steam, it probably is much larger than the Playstation Network but, again, revenue doesn't necessarily have any relevance on profit or what money a company makes

ironically Sony is a perfect example of this, as they pull in massive amounts of money through all of their electronic sectors but unfortunately after costs are accounted for have not been significantly profiting in a long long time. Sony may bring in wayyyy more money than Nintendo but it doesn't magically make them have much in the bank. They have a lot less than Nintendo saved and it speaks volumes for the importance of balancing your budget. 

Microsoft has tried the tactic of doing whatever it takes to sell their systems/games to force their precense into the gaming market for the last decade and have yet to ever make money from that division. Just because you create high revenues doesn't mean its a successful business. Just sort of parroting business 101 here, but people tend to post numbers on threads on sites like this without actually analyzing them. a big number is nothing if your backend costs are too high

I Don't remember well, but i saw a Articlce who said that Valve, had 1.5 Billions of Revennue from Steam, this are 2014 Numbers, this is how much Valve, got from Revenue, this isn't Steam's Total, but Valve, got 250 Millions of Revenue from Dota's Microtransactions, so is 1.2 Billions without this, 1.2 Billions is 30% of the Total Paid games on Steam,  i think that Include DLC, but does not include Microtransactions, Steam's Total Revenue must be 4-4.5 Billions, nearly the same as Nintendo, and the Same as PSN, but is aways growing and those data are from 2014.

 

It is hard to know Valve's Numbers because is a private company, but Valve isn't making so much Money like people thing, they have a hight Profit Margin, but from the 25-28 Billions of US$ of the PC Market, Majority go for games like RuneScape, League of Legends, Bllizard's Games, MMORPG, or Mobas.

 

Valve is the biggest Digital Store of the PC Market, but the games that give the Biggest Revenue for PC, does not need a Digital Store.



ZhugeEX on 24 April 2016

Someone asked me for Nintendo download sales revenue.

Here is a chart-



and here is that same chart compared to Sony's revenues.



Dunban67 on 24 April 2016
baloofarsan said:
setsunatenshi said:

you mentioned the profits from gaming earlier in your original post. does this graphic show the results from the SCE branch or of Sony as a whole? and why does it stop at 2011? thanks

Here are the same numbers in a table that includes 2012-2013.

I have searched for the source of these numbers many times but have not found any.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeNAZ5bCYAA0g-W.jpg

i have seen these numbers floating around the net for a few years as well-  but they have no source that i have ever seen and therefore no way to know how acurate or if they are even remotely acurate-    i am 99.5% sure the Sony numbers are not from Sony because they did not report their gaming division numbers broken out back then as they do now -        this is one of those things that make its way around the net enough and people see enough they just assume its true-  happens all the time unfortunately