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Forums - Sony Discussion - Digital Foundry: PS4K/Neo Spec Leak Genuine, Dev Kits On Their Way To Devs

Lawlight on 20 April 2016
Darc Requiem said:
Lawlight said:

What cons are those?

Poorly optimization of software and hardware specifications that are a moving target. Consoles had already acquired some of the annoying cons of PC gaming previously. The increasingly poor Q&A and need for day one patches being among them. My PS4 is looking more and more like a inferior PC gaming experience with minimal mod access, paid online play, and higher software prices.

It's still only 2 machines which are virtually identical unlike PC which has a limitless number of configurations. How is that even comparable?

And everything has patches these days. How is that a bad thing? Software prices are about the same on both consoles and PC.



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bigtakilla on 20 April 2016
Fei-Hung said:
I'm personally looming forward to this. I think we need to get used to this as this will be the new console cycle moving forward considering none of the big 3 are in it to make big losses at launch knowing their machines will get outdated anyway within a few years.

We will lose less on trade as the machines will be newer and they will be still have the same library.

We also know games will either be upscaled for one or downscaled for the other. I don't think all games will take advantage of it and it isn't mandatory either. I think it is mostly big first and second party games that will show the difference.

This only applies because 3 year upgrades currently aren't a thing. If this does become the norm, game outlets won't want to be bothered carrying a ton of used base models and their trade in value is going to plummet, or you will simply get stores not taking old consoles. This is going to be terrible for the industry if 3 year upgrades become the norm. 



ZahaDoom on 20 April 2016
Darc Requiem said:
Lawlight said:

What cons are those?

Poorly optimization of software and hardware specifications that are a moving target. Consoles had already acquired some of the annoying cons of PC gaming previously. The increasingly poor Q&A and need for day one patches being among them. My PS4 is looking more and more like a inferior PC gaming experience with minimal mod access, paid online play, and higher software prices.

 Exactly, thanks. And at least on PC I can print and run productivity software. Also not be in league with a developer that doesn't have the brains to even use its controllers touch pad for the Web browser.



Darc Requiem on 20 April 2016
Lawlight said:
Darc Requiem said:

Poorly optimization of software and hardware specifications that are a moving target. Consoles had already acquired some of the annoying cons of PC gaming previously. The increasingly poor Q&A and need for day one patches being among them. My PS4 is looking more and more like a inferior PC gaming experience with minimal mod access, paid online play, and higher software prices.

It's still only 2 machines which are virtually identical unlike PC which has a limitless number of configurations. How is that even comparable?

And everything has patches these days. How is that a bad thing? Software prices are about the same on both consoles and PC.

You have developers like Bethesda and Ubisoft that can't optimize their code for a single configuration. At least on PC, I can access mods for Bethesda games that make them run better. Software prices are not the same. I can usually get new PC releases for $20 or more cheaper than console counterparts. In some cases even more. I pre-ordered SFV for PC for $34 for example.



SvennoJ on 20 April 2016
Lawlight said:
Darc Requiem said:

Poorly optimization of software and hardware specifications that are a moving target. Consoles had already acquired some of the annoying cons of PC gaming previously. The increasingly poor Q&A and need for day one patches being among them. My PS4 is looking more and more like a inferior PC gaming experience with minimal mod access, paid online play, and higher software prices.

It's still only 2 machines which are virtually identical unlike PC which has a limitless number of configurations. How is that even comparable?

And everything has patches these days. How is that a bad thing? Software prices are about the same on both consoles and PC.

Vertically identical yet needing different GPU code...

All new titles with Neo support use unified packages that run on both platforms. The CPU binary is identical, while three GPU binaries (shared, PS4-specific and Neo-specific) are all contained in the same package.

Sounds like it's more work than code simply running faster

Save games should be interchangeable between PS4 and Neo titles (via USB or cloud storage). However, the system is platform agnostic. Sony is leaving it to developers to ensure this feature works.

Sony really wants Neo support on all games from October onwards. While older titles can have Neo features patched in, the platform holder will not allow new titles to add Neo features at a later date. Neo support for old games is allowed via 'forward compatibility' patching - but this will not be allowed for new titles.

If there's a bug in Neo-specific code, developers are not allowed to divert Neo owners to the PS4 codepath. The game must be fixed.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-how-playstation-4k-neo-and-the-original-ps4-will-co-exist

Sounds like a lot of hassle for developers and easier to simply opt out and only supply a PS4 codepath.



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bigtakilla on 20 April 2016
SvennoJ said:
Lawlight said:

It's still only 2 machines which are virtually identical unlike PC which has a limitless number of configurations. How is that even comparable?

And everything has patches these days. How is that a bad thing? Software prices are about the same on both consoles and PC.

Vertically identical yet needing different GPU code...

All new titles with Neo support use unified packages that run on both platforms. The CPU binary is identical, while three GPU binaries (shared, PS4-specific and Neo-specific) are all contained in the same package.

Sounds like it's more work than code simply running faster

Save games should be interchangeable between PS4 and Neo titles (via USB or cloud storage). However, the system is platform agnostic. Sony is leaving it to developers to ensure this feature works.

Sony really wants Neo support on all games from October onwards. While older titles can have Neo features patched in, the platform holder will not allow new titles to add Neo features at a later date. Neo support for old games is allowed via 'forward compatibility' patching - but this will not be allowed for new titles.

If there's a bug in Neo-specific code, developers are not allowed to divert Neo owners to the PS4 codepath. The game must be fixed.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-how-playstation-4k-neo-and-the-original-ps4-will-co-exist

Sounds like a lot of hassle for developers and easier to simply opt out and only supply a PS4 codepath.

So I can pretty easily see developers fixing one consoles issues and simply ignoring the others for weeks, months, or indefinitely. Arkham Origins is a good example of this. 



Lawlight on 21 April 2016
Darc Requiem said:
Lawlight said:

It's still only 2 machines which are virtually identical unlike PC which has a limitless number of configurations. How is that even comparable?

And everything has patches these days. How is that a bad thing? Software prices are about the same on both consoles and PC.

You have developers like Bethesda and Ubisoft that can't optimize their code for a single configuration. At least on PC, I can access mods for Bethesda games that make them run better. Software prices are not the same. I can usually get new PC releases for $20 or more cheaper than console counterparts. In some cases even more. I pre-ordered SFV for PC for $34 for example.

If these developers couldn't optimize their code for one configuration, what difference does another configuration make?



Swordmasterman on 21 April 2016

My Position still the same, i'm 100% Against it, if it isn't 600US$, and since i'm yet to purchase a New Gen System, i will wait PS4 Neos's launch, so the normal Version's price will drop, atleast the used ones.



Swordmasterman on 21 April 2016
Lawlight said:
Darc Requiem said:

You have developers like Bethesda and Ubisoft that can't optimize their code for a single configuration. At least on PC, I can access mods for Bethesda games that make them run better. Software prices are not the same. I can usually get new PC releases for $20 or more cheaper than console counterparts. In some cases even more. I pre-ordered SFV for PC for $34 for example.

If these developers couldn't optimize their code for one configuration, what difference does another configuration make?

Bethesda Messed up even the MMORPG, a "Bugged game", would became a "Unplayable game".



Darc Requiem on 21 April 2016
Lawlight said:
Darc Requiem said:

You have developers like Bethesda and Ubisoft that can't optimize their code for a single configuration. At least on PC, I can access mods for Bethesda games that make them run better. Software prices are not the same. I can usually get new PC releases for $20 or more cheaper than console counterparts. In some cases even more. I pre-ordered SFV for PC for $34 for example.

If these developers couldn't optimize their code for one configuration, what difference does another configuration make?

Giving them a second configuration isn't going to improve the situation, it's going to make it worse. One of, if not both, configurations are likely to get short changed. Unlike PC, consoles are a closed environments. So you don't even have the possibility of modders improving the games stability.