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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4.5/PS4K Is Codenamed 'NEO' And More Info

Mike_L said:
Lafiel said:

btw so they were probably developing "Morpheus" and "Neo" in tandem

Yeah. I like their codenames. :)

"The Circle of Life"

PS4 = Orbis

PS Vita = Vita (they probably shouldn't have used the codename as the final name though)

"The Matrix, baby"

PS4 Slim = Neo

PS VR = Morpheus

Wasn't the Vita's codename "NGP"? Or am I misremembering?



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Don't mind me, I just came to see the Matrix jokes.



tokilamockingbrd said:
i think what we will see is developers not optimizing games as well for "base mode" because the restrictions will be less for NEO dev. Basically we will never see a basemode game run at 60fps and probably not 1080p. Devs will realize that the people who are very picky about performance will be the 1st in line for NEO and those who dont upgrade are less likely to care that the game is running 900p 25-30fps (IMO that is the line for "playable" for most genres).

Agreed, though It will likely come down to the publisher not the devs. This is one of my main things that makes me hate this direction. I also think you are being generous with how the base mode performance will be... We already have games that run 25-30 fps 900p right now. Some that get pushed out with broken elements. Sony didn't stop those games at all. They can't enforce anything other then having a base mode version.

Games with deadlines and the lead platform being the 4.5 model is going to lead to mishaps like what happens with some PC games. The difference here is that they have to hit a target were-as on PC they don't. The minimum req's for games is all over the place on PC. Yet people have faith publishers will make sure these different versions all run smoothly when the base PS4 model has a predefined minimum for them to hit. Id argue it's going to make development difficult unless extreme sacrifices are made.



TheGoldenBoy said:
Mike_L said:

Yeah. I like their codenames. :)

"The Circle of Life"

PS4 = Orbis

PS Vita = Vita (they probably shouldn't have used the codename as the final name though)

"The Matrix, baby"

PS4 Slim = Neo

PS VR = Morpheus

Wasn't the Vita's codename "NGP"? Or am I misremembering?

No, I think you're right.

I remember some thought it was a newer codename as e.g. Kotaku.



SvennoJ said:
Ali_16x said:

It doesn't matter what they want, it will be required by Sony. It's not any different from what Sony is doing right now with the PS Vita by requiring EVERY developer to support remote play for the Vita on PS4. If they don't support the PS4.5k then they won't be allowed to develop on the PS4. But no one is hell is going to do that. Lol, going by how difficult the PS3 was to develop for, I somehow feel like the PS3 would be more of a annoyance than the PS4+4.5 combined.

There's a difference between required to run on, and actually making use of the extra hardware. All 3DS games are required to run on N3DS and vice versa, almost none use the extra hardware. There is no incentive to make 2 different versions for the same user base. Either the NEO version gets mostly ignored, or the base version will be less optimized, ie run worse. There are not going to be 2 optimized versions for the price of 1.

I highly doubt Sony wants to give up their profits of the golden years (high margin attractively priced slim), piss off developers, and risk dividing the user base, while launching a new product, psvr. Well, maybe they are that stupid. I guess I'll stop trying to pre-order psvr for now, see what NX has to offer instead.

Well the thing, there is no developer stupid enough to ignore the PS4.5 users. Even if it has 1 million users, the developers wouldn't ignore them. And this is just better graphics we are talking about. Why do you guys think it's super hard? You are acting like they're developing on an alien platform. It would not be hard at all to use the extra power because that's all it is, extra power, nothing has changed other than that. You guys seriously need to calm down. You guys are just exaggerating it.

EDIT: I mean holy crap, Sony has found a easy way for developers to develop for 3 different platforms, PS4,PS3,PSV like it's nothing. These are 3 actual different platforms and you think Sony wouldn't make it super easy to develop using PS4.5?



"There is only one race, the pathetic begging race"

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AEGRO said:

You will remember me when

A) The games on PS4 NEO will look absolutely the same than the regular PS4, so people will be raging about how the new console is worthless. B) The game will be optimized for the NEO and will run like shit on the regular PS4.

On this era of patches and DLC, dividing a userbase will be catastrophic.

As other people have written, it's not really a wholly distinct platform.  The same performance/design tweaks applicable to PS4 will apply to PS4.5, even if you are not "fully using" the power of PS4.5, it's pretty easy/safe to amp up certain parameters, e.g. real 1080p, real 60fps, using single player lighting in multiplayer, etc.

While IMHO it will inevitably lead to somewhat less full optimization of later PS4.0 games (relative to what it would have been in later years... not really regressing from current 900p/25-30fps), I don't think that's really the end of the world, because:

A) PS4 is a more straightforward architecture with less arcane optimization potential (in contrast to PS3), the potential is in GPGPU which is shared w/ PS4.5.
B) if Sony didn't go with PS4.5 now, there would be more pressure to end PS4 earlier, so end-of-life scenario isn't much different for PS4.0 either way.
C) Trends in game dev mean most game devs where never going to prioritize full resolution and full 60fps to the hilt above and beyond "bling".
By having a period where cross-compatability between 4.0 and 4.5 is required, it's almost ensured that the 4.5 version will get that full res/fps for gamers who value that.

 It was broadcast from every corner that this gen wouldn't necessarily last as long as last gen, because they didn't subsidize it as much from the beginning,
and because x86 platform makes it easier to migrate to future x86 platform because of the lack of hard-to-optimize arcane console specific architectures...
If Sony didn't do PS4.5, I was fully expecting cross-gen games with easily portability between PS4/PS5 to more similar console architectures...
Going with 4.5 now just allows pushing out PS5 to later date, which may likely be a real 4k gaming machine now...  
I'd rather see "crossgen" games across PS4.0/4.5, than have to experience that across PS4/PS5.

Why it seems Sony is going with 4.5 now:
VR:  PS4's lack of power has been the negative for Morpheus, especially compared to it's PC kin.  PS4.5 puts Morpheus in much better position re: PC VR.
When you see Morpheus VR demonstrated in stores, it will be demonstrated with PS4.5, showing off it's potential the best with least downsides.
This should be of net benefit even for PS4.0 Morpheus VR gamers, since if Morpheus VR tanked because of low specs fewer games would be made for it.
Now Morpheus VR can leverage very respectable power AND the combined PS4/4.5 userbase to attact developers. 
PS4 gamers will get the VR game performance they otherwise could have expected, yet Morpheus isn't held back by that standard either:
Crossplatform devs will have a much stronger proposition for targetting Morpheus alongside PCVR.

MS:  Contary to simplistic take on "splitting the platform", IMHO Sony's 2:1 install base advantage (and near 3:1 current sales advantage) vs MS
means Sony will disproportionately benefit from this, letting them entrench/extend their platform advantage vs. MS for this gen (and a half).
MS lacks equivalent to Sony's Morpheus VR platform which is the real stand out of PS4.5, so they would get less benefit from the disruption.
A "gen and a half" update means MS is still wedded to XBone platform, so they are still stuck with ESRAM and less CU per die area.
Dev workload will have roughly 1/3 the benefit:cost ratio for a XBoneAndAHalf "port", given current sales ratios (3:1) extend to updated platform.
IMHO PS4 sales lead already looks likely to increase further, but with Morpheus and PS4.5, I expect sales lead ratio to increase even faster.
MS looks in maintenance mode to keep platfom "profitable" while in clear #2 position, this move is just lose/lose for MS (if they follow or ignore).
Although I suppose the interesting question would be if MS would then be forced to release "Dos Equis Box" (Bone Two) early in response...?

Nintendo:  A bit hard to analyze, just because Nintendo is currently such an obtuse non-cometitor to Sony/MS in console space...
But if Sony hadn't gone for NEO, NX clearly would have been in space to offer both N exclusives AND superior cross platform experience.
Even if NX is able to offer theoretically more powerful platform than PS4.5 given it would have new architecture unlike PS4.5,
the difference will likely be not enough to matter, especially given the larger market share of PS4.0/4.5 (either combined or 4.5 only).
Still,  Nintendo should take advantage of Sony seeming to commit to PS4.5 by attracting crossplatform ports to the NX...
Honestly, that will be an interesting competition: PS4.5 offering Morpheus VR, NX offering equivalent crossplatforms and Nintendo exclusives.
(IMHO N may forgo the option of "superior newfangled architecture" in order to maximize crossplatform ports with PS4.5)

But let's get real: The "required parity" clause for devs, forcing them to offer 4.0 and 4.5 compatable games, will not last forever.
PS4 will sooner or later be deprecated, even if it continues in production as a lower tier console... And PS4.5 exclusives will gain traction,
once the install base justifies that move... Which again, isn't fundamentally different to a scenario where PS4.5 didn't happen but PS5 happened sooner.



TheGoldenBoy said:
Mike_L said:

Yeah. I like their codenames. :)

"The Circle of Life"

PS4 = Orbis

PS Vita = Vita (they probably shouldn't have used the codename as the final name though)

"The Matrix, baby"

PS4 Slim = Neo

PS VR = Morpheus

Wasn't the Vita's codename "NGP"? Or am I misremembering?

It was indeed called that at first, I recall it being jokingly refered to as the "No Gaems Portable" considering it was at a time when "ps3 haz no gaemz" was all the rage.

Outside of that, tagging this thread for a read later, some odd thoughts here between people projecting outrage on others and such, odd times.



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If it is real I look forward to trading in my current ps4 for one!



ZahaDoom said:
I think this is a big big mistake if true. I'll probably cancel my PSVR order, and the PS4 would be my first and LAST SONY console.

Yeah, that and not buying any Sony published games; already the reason why i'm skipping R&C. I'll be keeping an eye on the NX and if it's going to be the only normal console from now on (I have doubts about that, there might not be one at all) i'll just move there and play whatever (few?) third party games get released there, and the traditionally-on-PS-niche-japanese-games on Vita/PC.



SvennoJ said:
So who is going to pay publishers to include that NEO mode, why would they bother.
Required starting in October, yeah right.
Did Giant bomb fall for some faked documents or something.

Why wouldn't they?  Cross platform devs already do equivalent work tweaking for XBone/PC.
PS4.5 sharing same architecture as PS4 means you can rely on same optimizations to large degree.
Just increase resolution to full 1080p.  Full 60 fps.  Enable single player lighting in multiplayer mode.  Etc.
They don't need to bother to find the "ultimate" performance tweak, that "fully" leverages the PS4.5 power,
if they don't want to spend to much on PS4.5 specifics, they just go for the safe/easy performance boosts
Only when PS4/4.5 cross-compatability requirement is dropped will PS4.5 full power/optimization really be pursued.