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Forums - Politics Discussion - Man's Perspective on Donald Trump's Campaign: Dear Trump Supporters

An eloquent speaker. A shame I don't see any sources cited in the video description though.



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CosmicSex said:
sc94597 said:

When you put politics into money/markets/businesses, don't be surprised when there is money/businesses in politics. It is the same principle behind the separation of the church and state. We need the separation of markets and the state if we truly want the rich and powerful out of politics. But then that would mean we have to neuter the power of the state to bare necessity levels, which most people don't seem to want. What do you expect, the rich to just roll over and get screwed by the "majority" through mob-rule? 

Therein lies the issue.  Government is trapped inside of the same system as we are.  Money rules everything and there are those who thrive because of it and many more who do not.  The power that it has over our society comes from the emphiasis it has over us.  So, we would need to change ourselves in order to change the brokeness of government. What you are proposing seems nearly impossible. I don't have a solution for this that doesn't consist of a large mob.  Can you think of a solution?

Money is just a way to store and exchange value. That's it. You need to ask why does money have value. Because people put their time, energy, and labor to create things, and they exchange their creations for money. Money hencely, represents compensation in exchange for the product of a person's labor. This person then can use the money to buy the product of other people's labor. Obviously, something which represents the time and effort of people is going to be valuable. There is no way to change that other than changing the nature of human beings. 

How can we get the state out of people's money (at least to an overwhelming extent)? We reduce what the state does. That means no proactive wars, no FDA, DEA, ATF, EPA, alphabet agency XYZ, no war on drugs, etc, etc. At the basis of things the state is responsible for making sure people don't kill or steal from each other, making sure people outside the geographical region don't kill or steal from people who live within the states boundaries, and making sure people do not commit fraud. (And some people even argue we don't need a state to do these things.) 

Why do big businesses control the government? Because it has the powers to give them special advantages. Why does government control businesses? Because these are precisely the special advantages the big businesses have bought. 

Anyway, I don't see this cycle changing until the next enlightenment - whenever that will be. Just as the church and state were so tethered in the middle ages and now they are not, so will there be an enlightenment in which the state and market cannot interfere with eachother beyond a basic minimum. And then eventually we might even be able to shed the state. 



This is the first political video I've seen this election cycle that isn't rooted in hatred and belittling of any opposing side. I love how he went to a Trump rally and realized, "Holy shit! These people are human beings!" Reminds me of another guy I knew who did the same thing with the Tea Party rallies back when they were big. It's amazing what actually talking to people face to face can achieve.



fatslob-:O said:
The man is just spreading pure propaganda ...

Why do people think Bernie is good?

 

Trump is an extremely cocky and ignorant person. Don't you see how he answers questions? Ask him how he'll make Mexico pay for the wall if they say no. He'll just say, "they will" and moves on.

Hillary? I think we've all gotten used to her. She's an oppurtunistic person. Pounces upon anything that'll help her. From saying she regrets the Iraq war to minimum wage increases, she's doing whatever she can just to gain power.

 

Bernie? Here's the problem. In terms of character, he's not a bad dude. The problem with him is his plans- tax the rich, alright. But how will that make a difference? The rich already pay craploads of taxes. Even if you were to make their taxes 100% of their salary, that won't help America at all.

 

Face it, the candidates are trash. Nothing we can do about it.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton said:
fatslob-:O said:
The man is just spreading pure propaganda ...

Why do people think Bernie is good?

 

Trump is an extremely cocky and ignorant person. Don't you see how he answers questions? Ask him how he'll make Mexico pay for the wall if they say no. He'll just say, "they will" and moves on.

Hillary? I think we've all gotten used to her. She's an oppurtunistic person. Pounces upon anything that'll help her. From saying she regrets the Iraq war to minimum wage increases, she's doing whatever she can just to gain power.

 

Bernie? Here's the problem. In terms of character, he's not a bad dude. The problem with him is his plans- tax the rich, alright. But how will that make a difference? The rich already pay craploads of taxes. Even if you were to make their taxes 100% of their salary, that won't help America at all.

 

Face it, the candidates are trash. Nothing we can do about it.

Trump has said how he will get them to pay for the wall.  You re-negotiate NAFTA with Mexico and make them pay for it if they want to continue to continue with the trade deal.  The wall is about 1/5 of the yearly trade deficit with Mexico, you could negotiate it over several years.  Exiting NAFTA would be very damaging for Mexico, you can bet it would be tough to say no.  Yes, it's a political stunt, you could easily get the money from elsewhere but this is the same kind of thing he wants to do with other trade deals.  



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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Most Trump supporter are super crazy. Here is some visual proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQPY_1iWcFk



sc94597 said:

European states are primarily social democracies (not socialist.) They embrace market economies and the private ownership of the means of production (mostly) something any socialist will tell you disqualifies a person (group of people) from being socialists. 

I have a concern of how European states deal with things like freedom of speech in particular. I hear way too often censorship happening in EU states, and it is something that would be greatly pushed against here in the U.S. Besides that, the freedoms are quite similar in Europe from what I can tell. 

I am against the welfare state and warfare state by the way. I am against them for the same reasons (and differeing ones.) They take GDP out of the hands of efficient spenders and put it into the hands of inefficient spenders (government.) They also allow for massive amounts of debt (19 trillion currently.)

Private charities have existed in the past, and in only the most extreme cases (Great Depression) was government required to supplement them. I think private charities can certainly return (hell, in the U.S there is as much private "welfare" spending as public right now.) As for the military, if it were relegated to only defensive measures then tons of money and resources would be saved. Overall the country and the economy would be much more prosperous for it. 

Ah please. Will you guys stop believing in this Libertarian bullshit?

Europe is becoming more and more neoliberal. Everything is becoming privatised for the argument of efficiëncy.

You know what the funny thing is about the free market and public sectors? They don't mix. The free market is terribly inneficiënt whent it comes to making sure people have good healthcare, decent transport and energy sectors. Why? Because you need to look at the public good, not at the cheapest and fastest way to do it. Private charities are a good way to give the rich some ease of mind. In the ideal world though, we need structural solutions to eliminate poverty and halt the corporate grip on our lives.

The solution, of course, is a modern command economy.

The only part where I agree is that defense spending everywhere is just too damn high.



johnsobas said:
hershel_layton said:

Why do people think Bernie is good?

 

Trump is an extremely cocky and ignorant person. Don't you see how he answers questions? Ask him how he'll make Mexico pay for the wall if they say no. He'll just say, "they will" and moves on.

Hillary? I think we've all gotten used to her. She's an oppurtunistic person. Pounces upon anything that'll help her. From saying she regrets the Iraq war to minimum wage increases, she's doing whatever she can just to gain power.

 

Bernie? Here's the problem. In terms of character, he's not a bad dude. The problem with him is his plans- tax the rich, alright. But how will that make a difference? The rich already pay craploads of taxes. Even if you were to make their taxes 100% of their salary, that won't help America at all.

 

Face it, the candidates are trash. Nothing we can do about it.

Trump has said how he will get them to pay for the wall.  You re-negotiate NAFTA with Mexico and make them pay for it if they want to continue to continue with the trade deal.  The wall is about 1/5 of the yearly trade deficit with Mexico, you could negotiate it over several years.  Exiting NAFTA would be very damaging for Mexico, you can bet it would be tough to say no.  Yes, it's a political stunt, you could easily get the money from elsewhere but this is the same kind of thing he wants to do with other trade deals.  

Wow. I've looked all over the internet to see his explanation. Weird how I never found it until now.

Thanks a lot.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

the-pi-guy said:

Not always the case.  

A lot of the rich take advantage of the system.  And many of them pay very little in taxes.  

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html

Top 1% pay half of fed income taxes, bottom 80% pay 15%. These sorts of figures are true for most countries with progressive taxation.

Mitt Romney's "47%" quip come the last election comes from the fact that the bottom 47% of income earners in the United States either pay 0 federal taxes, or receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes, and so they would never (according to his logic) vote Republican.



people thought Mitt Romney paid no taxes, well guess what? Bernie paid a lower tax rate than Romney and Bernie only made 200k.



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-sanders-taxes-idUSKCN0XC2UF



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X