Let me begin by saying that I think Trump is a horrible person with horrible policy positions who would make a horrible President.  Nevertheless, there are a few things that I believe he has been unfairly criticized for, and even he is right on some issues.  "A broken clock is still right twice a day."

In this thread I want to discuss a statement he recently made (and has since disavowed) on TV when being questioned by Chris Matthews on his position on abortion. 

Here is the link to the transcript I am using. 
Here is the link to a CNN article I got pro-life statements and Trump's retraction from. 

Matthews asked, "If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under law. Should abortion be punished?"

After a lot of back and forth between him and Trump, Trump finally gave this answer: 
"Well, you know, you go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places.  But you have to ban it."

This is a definitive statement that abortion needs to be outlawed even though some people will get abortions regardless of its legality, but it doesn't directly answer the question, so Matthews repeats it. 

MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle?
TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.
MATTHEWS: For the woman.
TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form.
Trump basically refuses to say what ranges of punishment might be acceptable, but "some form" of punishment should befall the woman who has an illegal abortion in the event that it is made illegal in the United States. 

Now, after this, many pro-life (and anti-abortion) groups attacked him for taking this position.  One said: 
"Being pro-life means wanting what is best for the mother and the baby. Women who choose abortion often do so in desperation and then deeply regret such a decision. No pro-lifer would ever want to punish a woman who has chosen abortion. This is against the very nature of what we are about."

While denouncing the idea of punishment for women who would get illegal abortions, they sympathized with Trump:  "As a convert to the pro-life movement, Mr. Trump sees the reality of the horror of abortion -- the destruction of an innocent human life." 

"If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman.  The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb."

Now, here's where I put in my two cents.  For perspective, I am firmly pro-choice.  I do not see [edit:  embryos and] fetuses as people in the early stages of their development; rather I consider them potential people.  Sperm and egg unite to create a self-assembling lump of flesh that eventually grows enough of a human brain that it would be wrong to kill that brain. 

But suppose that fetus[*] was a person from the moment of conception.  No:  suppose the law considers that fetus to be a person from the moment of conception.  To deliberately take actions with the intended result of ending the life of that fetus would be killing a person.  We're talking about murder, or perhaps a lesser charge such as manslaughter.  Perhaps "fetal murder" would be categorized differently, at a lower level of punishment, just like we have different levels of charges today.  But nothing?  That seems to me to be a slap in the face to the very lives these "pro-life" groups claim to hold so sacred.  Only the abortionist should be punished?  Bullshit!  That woman is basically hiring a hitman to murder her unborn child.  Can I solicit a murderer's services secure in the knowledge that only the man holding the gun will be held responsible for the crime I wanted committed?  No.  The very idea is as ridiculous as it is repugnant. 

So my question to VGChartz is, do you agree or disagree with me?  If you disagree, will you help me understand how wanting abortion to be banned and wanting to punish doctors who perform abortion squares with NOT wanting to punish women who solicit the services of those same doctors for the explicit purpose of having an abortion?

[* edit:  I am not aware of the umbrella term, assuming one exists, for both embryos (before 9 weeks) and fetuses (9 weeks to birth).  You can safely say that I mean to include embryos when I speak of fetuses that are not persons, or fetuses "from conception".] 

Sweet Jesus, not this shit again.

I love this " is it a thing, or a person ? " talk.

OP: abortion is nothing else than a kill on purpose. U dont want child ? Kill child ! Kill "it" when it is small, its easier.

Does the concept of human reproduction bother you?  Do you believe in the stork theory?  Or are you offended by the idea that it could ever be wrong to kill someone? 

1. Well, I dont think " reproducion " is a good word here. 

2. What is it ?

3. Killing someone may be wrong or right. Abortion - imo - is " no human,no problem" way of thinking.

1.  Why not? 
2.  This was my little joke.  The basis for it was that if you refuse to think of people as being created from sperm and egg as scientific knowledge asserts, then perhaps you subscribe to the classic lie told to little children that they were created by magic and delivered to their parents' doorstep by a stork. 
3.  If you go back and read my post, you'll find that you are basically correct.  Abortions should not be performed to kill a person, but in the earlier part of the pregnancy (half, two thirds, we could argue about the breakpoint but that's not relevant to this discussion), my belief is that the fetus is not actually a person (no human mind) and therefore we are not ethically bound to protect it; therefore abortions are not horrible mass murder.  In the later part of the pregnancy it would be wrong to do the same thing because a human mind has developed and it would be wrong to kill that person. 

Why did you do two threads about this subject?I know they are not exactly about the same thing, but both are about Trump and his ideals.You should have just made one.Its easier to discuss this way

but this topic isn't about Trump, it's about whether or not a woman who has an abortion should face punishment, if every kind of abortion is banned due to fetuses being seen/legally treated as a person

@ topic )

I agree that it doesn't make sense to absolve the woman of guilt/punishment if she ordered an abortion in a legal setting that bans abortions. I think the view that an abortion is always just something that's "done to a woman's body" is dishonest and an attempt to close the lid on the legal can of worms "pro-life" positions open, as natural degeneration of fetuses and still births are pretty frequent and in quite a few of thoses cases it could be argued that the woman facilitated this outcome with her behavior during pregnancy.

Have to go to work, i will post later.

I am decidedly pro-abortion. As a man, I have no idea what a woman goes through during her pregnancy; it's her body, let her decide, since she's the one who has to carry it to term.

It's too difficult to consider on a case-by-case basis, what were the circumstances that led to the pregnancy, what is the woman's economic situation like, what would the environment be like for the baby at home, etc. So if a law had to be instated, I'd rather it was pro-abortion...one step towards managing population crisis at least. Do we want women who don't want the child, for whatever reason, to be forced into having it anyway?

Sorry maybe it's too simplistic on my part, but I would never side with a known misogynist like Trump on women's issues.