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Forums - General Discussion - Are Westerners taking advantage of Japanese content creators? Fan Translations = piracy

Mnementh on 27 February 2016
naruball said:

It seems like you're missing the point. Yes, thanks to fansubs many anime became popular in the first place, but, contrary to what you stated, creators are losing money because of fansubs. I don't know if you read my entire post and I hate repeating myself, but I'll mention it one last time shortly. By the time Naruto and similar anime get dubbed or officially subbed and dsitributed in dvd or bluray format, people have already watched them because of the fansubs and only few have any interest in rewatching them or buying the dvds/blurays.

As for Dragonball you're definitely wrong. It became popular thanks to dubs. In other words, the creators were making a lot of money from each country that aired DB dubbed.

You're missing my point. Dragonball and Naruto wouldn't reach Westerners, if fansubs of Animes before them haven't built a fanbase for Anime.



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naruball on 27 February 2016
Mnementh said:
naruball said:

It seems like you're missing the point. Yes, thanks to fansubs many anime became popular in the first place, but, contrary to what you stated, creators are losing money because of fansubs. I don't know if you read my entire post and I hate repeating myself, but I'll mention it one last time shortly. By the time Naruto and similar anime get dubbed or officially subbed and dsitributed in dvd or bluray format, people have already watched them because of the fansubs and only few have any interest in rewatching them or buying the dvds/blurays.

As for Dragonball you're definitely wrong. It became popular thanks to dubs. In other words, the creators were making a lot of money from each country that aired DB dubbed.

You're missing my point. Dragonball and Naruto wouldn't reach Westerners, if fansubs of Animes before them haven't built a fanbase for Anime.

Jesus Christ, dude. Do you listen to youself? Do you realise when DragonBall aired? That was when hardly anyone even used the internet. And I addressed the point that anime like Naruto reached the west thanks to fansubs. Are you even reading anything?



NobleTeam360 on 27 February 2016

Doesn't Japan have the 3rd largest economy in the world, only behind the United States and China?



Ruler on 27 February 2016
Aielyn said:
Creating a patch to a rom with a fan translation isn't piracy, unless the rom itself is also being distributed for free (or being sold without permission by the owner of the rom).

Taking a rom (with or without fan translation), putting it into a reproduction cart, and selling it without the permission of the creators of the original rom is piracy, though.

To use the analogy of Frozen in Burmese... if someone records a replacement audio track for Frozen, in Burmese, with the idea being that it gets played simultaneously with the video of Frozen (which would have the sound muted), and the audio is entirely reproduced rather than using the original audio, then it wouldn't be piracy. It becomes piracy when they distribute copies of Frozen with the replacement audio without permission from Disney.

They translate and make a patch without permission from japanese content creator. What do you think this fan translation is being used on? on pirated copies



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alabtrosMyster on 27 February 2016

 

 

 *(in fact most Western countries are richer than Japan)

Japan is the third richest country in the world!! The only western country that has a bigger gdp is the us... Unless you count the european union as one country...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)




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Ruler on 27 February 2016
pokoko said:

"*(in fact most Western countries are richer than Japan)" -- You've got to be kidding.

 

Johnw1104 said:

 First, I'm not sure why you think Japan is "poorer" than most of these countries you mention when they trail only China and the US in gdp.

 

 

Ka-pi96 said:
Ruler said:

 *(in fact most Western countries are richer than Japan)

Saying something is a fact means it should be true. That's not true...

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD/countries/JP-EU-US?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD/countries/JP-EU?order=wbapi_data_value_2014%20wbapi_data_value%20wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc&display=default

 

Country name2011201220132014   
Luxembourg 113,239.6 105,447.1 113,726.6 116,664.3
 
Norway 100,575.1 101,563.7 102,832.3 97,307.4
 
Qatar 89,115.9 94,407.4 96,077.0 96,732.4
 
Macao SAR, China 67,013.0 77,078.8 90,331.8 96,038.1
 
Switzerland 88,002.6 83,208.7 84,669.3 85,594.3
 
Australia 62,216.5 67,646.1 67,627.8 61,925.5
 
Denmark 61,304.1 57,636.1 59,818.6 60,707.2
 
Sweden 59,593.7 57,134.1 60,283.2 58,938.8
 
Singapore 53,121.2 54,577.1 55,979.8 56,284.6
 
United States 49,781.4 51,456.7 52,980.0 54,629.5
 
Ireland 52,828.4 48,976.9 51,814.9 54,374.4
 
Netherlands 53,537.3 49,474.7 51,425.1 52,172.2
 
Iceland 45,970.9 44,258.8 47,493.2 52,004.5
 
Austria 51,123.6 48,324.3 50,557.8 51,190.8
 
Canada 52,086.5 52,733.5 52,305.3 50,235.4
 
Finland 50,787.6 47,415.6 49,492.8 49,823.7
 
Germany 45,936.1 44,010.9 46,441.7 47,821.9
 
Belgium 47,699.8 44,731.2 46,625.3 47,352.9
 
United Kingdom 41,020.4 41,294.5 42,309.0 46,332.0
 
New Zealand 37,896.9 39,505.0 42,308.2 44,342.2
 
United Arab Emirates 39,901.2 41,712.1 42,831.1 43,962.7
 
Kuwait 47,551.4 50,903.9 48,463.2 43,593.7
 
France 43,807.5 40,850.4 42,627.7 42,732.6
 
Brunei Darussalam 41,787.0 41,807.7 39,151.2 40,979.6
 
Hong Kong SAR, China 35,142.5 36,707.8 38,364.2 40,169.5
 
Israel 33,707.3 32,818.9 36,281.2 37,208.0
 
Japan 46,203.7 46,679.3 38,633.7 36,194.4
 
Italy 38,364.9 34,844.5 35,420.9 34,908.5
 
Spain 31,832.2 28,647.8 29,370.7 29,767.4
 
Korea, Rep. 24,155.8 24,454.0 25,997.9 27,970.5


Why i left PC gaming

 

(2015) Question for PS4 owners: if the situation would be reverse? would you still play on PS4?

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Ruler on 27 February 2016
alabtrosMyster said:

 

 

 *(in fact most Western countries are richer than Japan)

Japan is the third richest country in the world!! The only western country that has a bigger gdp is the us... Unless you count the european union as one country...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

thats not how you meassure wealth by that logic monaco is piss poor



Why i left PC gaming

 

(2015) Question for PS4 owners: if the situation would be reverse? would you still play on PS4?

(2015) The "I don't care PS4 is the most powerful console" thread

Jon-Erich on 27 February 2016

Japanese anime and Disney movies aren't comparable. First of all, most Disney movies have more of an international mainstream market whereas anime has more of a niche market. So Disney knows that they're potentially losing money on piracy when it happens. With anime, the opposite is often true. If something is released in Japan but not elsewhere, the creators technically aren't losing money in foreign markets because they never invested any to begin with. If anything, its market research for them. This is probably why you don't see the studios in Japan reacting the same way Disney does.

Also, let's be honest here. The market of pirated movies with bad dubs that was so popular 20 years ago is the reason the Japanese started taking the western market more seriously. I don't condone piracy but something positive did come out of it.



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Ruler on 27 February 2016

pokoko said:
Do you know why anime is big in the west now? Fansubs. I was there back then, trading VHS tapes on the internet because Japanese companies wouldn't bring over anything over except Sailor Moon, Pokemon, and some horribly butchered versions of a few other titles with supposed mass appeal. They said there was no interest in the west in anything else. I had to trade for tapes of Hana Yori Dango that were recorded from television. I had to look everywhere for someone subbing Kodocha.		  

ehh no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UKQVlOxgO4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_eOZHwrX2k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmWJn_yiHYo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vf8odLL_Xo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_gBBRwJWHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__0Rfr5avjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2yq_HiaJns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlsiOKg-L24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMi37-TSi70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wviu4QGb_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmZd0lcjkKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7zPI2702-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BIoUzX4n2I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPsQQFakmmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb-Kq3Sg5no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzJ7UxlQleI

and there are many many other animes from the 70-90s localized in the west

 

maybe in NA it was this way but its because your TV channels wouldnt allow animes to be aired probably because of xenophobia. Everywhere else in the world Anime was big, it always was. 



Why i left PC gaming

 

(2015) Question for PS4 owners: if the situation would be reverse? would you still play on PS4?

(2015) The "I don't care PS4 is the most powerful console" thread

pokoko on 27 February 2016
Ruler said:

maybe in NA it was this way but its because your TV channels wouldnt allow animes to be aired probably because of xenophobia. Everywhere else in the world Anime was big, it always was. 

You just made that up out of thin air, didn't you?  And you think western companies dubbing kid's anime that's set in the west means they were bringing over shoujo or josei?  Even now, fansubbers aren't worried about the kinds of anime you've linked and they never were.  Fansubbing started because no one could get anime that was aimed at an older demographic.  When they could, it was butchered, and people were angry.  I was there, I remember that.

Also, you realize that by showing a handful of western countries are richer than Japan that it means you were wrong about most western countries being richer than Japan, right?  Even if you exclude Latin America, Japan is still richer than most of Europe.  If you include Latin America then it's not even close.

Here is a good article that was written in 2008, before Crunchyroll showed these companies the smart way to make money off anime in the west.

THE FANSUBBING DILEMMA

A Brief History of Fansubbing

Japanese animation began to become visible in America in the late '70s and early '80s. Series like Star Blazers and Speed Racer were the favorites of American distributors who saw animation as an industry targeted primarily to children, nothing more than cartoons. It was rare for a mature, meaningful anime title to make it to American shores, and those that did make it were oftentimes subjected to incredibly bad adaptations that made the Japanese studios wary.